Neel's Saddlery 441 Machine, Good For Professional Work?

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

I'm looking for my first machine, and one that will give professional results for my business. I've found a Neel's 441 that is local and priced right, and am ready to buy. I am primarily a holster maker, is this a good choice? The seller said he bought it new in 2008 as a hobby that didn't work out, has less than 10hours on it. $1700 and it's not far, seems ideal. Thanks, Josh

[robertmeco]

I have never herd of this machine tryed to google it with no results I use a Cobra 4 machine and cant say enough good about it

Edited July 18, 2013 by robertmeco

[particle]

That machine should have very similar specs (if not identical) to the Cobra Class 3. If you are happy with the price, and the owner can sew on it and prove it sews fine, then it will probably work perfectly fine for your holster business.

http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?item=2

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

The seller said it would skip stitches on tight corners, but I would imagine it requires some adjustments, or is easily fixed being near new. I will have the opportunity to sew with it before buying.

[Ferg]

It looks similar to a Cowboy 227 maybe older.

I am going to make a semi educated guess.

Will sew 3/8" of leather with 138 thread but may work with #207 on top with 138 in the bobbin.

Looks to have reverse and will probably sew a maximum stitch length of 5 (Stitches per inch)

Has a Clutch Motor, you should get a Servo motor for it.

That is a very short arm, 10.5" probably. That could be a hinderance with your holsters.

IMHO, that is too much to pay for it.

Contact Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines 866-362-7397

. He has a complete line of machines you can chose from at great prices.

ferg

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

quote - " 9" throat and can sew up to 3/4" thich leather. 3/4 hp servo motor with speed reducer" I didn't think to ask if it had reverse , looks like the cowboy CB3500 I was considering

[Wizcrafts]

It is a CB3500 rebranded and set up by Ryan O'Neel, who runs Neel's Saddlery in Lima, Ohio. It has all the capabilities of a CB3500 and would make a great holster sewing machine. It does have reverse built into the stitch length lever. Just go up to sew in reverse.

Note, you can buy a new CB3500 for about $2100. Hopefully, this used machine has plenty of bobbins, needles and thread for $1700.

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

_{It comes with needles and 5# of thread, if it will be suitable for my purpose I don't know. I was planning on driving to Bob's for a cowboy machine to save the cost of freight, but even the drive would be expensive, My price range is more like the 2500 class, but managed to pull some strings to reach the 3500/4500 range. Even still a few hundred dollars makes a big difference right now, but I still want to make a good investment. My first thoughts were for the 4500 with the 16" arm, but for holster and belt work I assume the 9" would be sufficient.}

[Wizcrafts]

_{It comes with needles and 5# of thread, if it will be suitable for my purpose I don't know. I was planning on driving to Bob's for a cowboy machine to save the cost of freight, but even the drive would be expensive, My price range is more like the 2500 class, but managed to pull some strings to reach the 3500/4500 range. Even still a few hundred dollars makes a big difference right now, but I still want to make a good investment. My first thoughts were for the 4500 with the 16" arm, but for holster and belt work I assume the 9" would be sufficient.}

Buy the longest arm machine you can afford. You will thank me later.

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

I really appreciate the advice, it means a lot, and I will think hard on it

[LeatherLegion]

I went to Bob few years back to get the CB3500 ...I changed my mind while in the shop there and bought the 4500...best decision !!!

Edited July 19, 2013 by LeatherLegion

[particle]

Something to keep in mind is the resale value will be much better with the longer arm machines like the 4500 / Class 4. You can invest your money knowing if you ever have to sell the machine, you'll get most of your money back. I actually sold my Boss for more than I paid for it after using it for around 3 years for holsters and belts, and a few journal covers and a couple bags.

[Les No6]

A 9inch arm is more than adequate for holsters and belts and most leather work you won't have a problem the only thing I've come across that can't be fully stitched on my machines (11-12inch arms) are splash boards, depends on what you intend to do if its a jack of all trades then a 16" arm may be handy but it also may not be enough, it is nice to have a little extra room while working though. The missed stitches on the corners are nothing to worry about he will not be turning the corners correctly before turning you need to ensure the shuttle has picked up the thread other wise when turning you move the thread out of the path of the shuttle and miss a stitch this is true for all machines.

[Techsew Ron]

_{It comes with needles and 5# of thread, if it will be suitable for my purpose I don't know. I was planning on driving to Bob's for a cowboy machine to save the cost of freight, but even the drive would be expensive, My price range is more like the 2500 class, but managed to pull some strings to reach the 3500/4500 range. Even still a few hundred dollars makes a big difference right now, but I still want to make a good investment. My first thoughts were for the 4500 with the 16" arm, but for holster and belt work I assume the 9" would be sufficient.}

You'll be fine sewing belts and holsters with this machine. By comparison a new short arm 441 clone will run you about $2195 plus shipping.

If you decide to jump up to a long arm machine it is offered by:

Cowboy

Leather machine co

Techsew sewing machines

Ron

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

I sure appreciate the input, you guys are great

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

Just an update, considering the savings I decided to go look at the machine, sewed with it, and took it home. Only having experience with the old singer 29-4s I am very impressed with the stitch quality, ease of operation, simplicty of the machine, etc. Also came with 5 spools of very nice heavy thread(I forget what weight I'd have to check) the roller guide, holster plate, and a dozen bobbins. The machine still looks brand new, and I am pleased with the purchase. It was great to share stories and techniques and tools with another crafter, a great experience indeed. I was concerned about how much time it would take to learn to operate the machine well enough for production, but I expect to put it to work with in a couple days. Thanks for all the advice, and your help with this decision.

Cheers!

Josh

[Rayban]

I have the CB3500 and (9" arm) it's plenty adequate for holsters....and I also had problems with skipped stitches til I learned how to use the machine.

With only 10 hours on this machine, it should be" like new" condition and $1700 is a good deal....MY Cowboy is going on 4 years old and no way would I sell it for less than that.

[Matchlock]

Skipping a stitch on a corner could be a user error. When turning say, a 90 degree corner, I always stop the machine at the turning point with the needle all the way down into the material. Now, just before it starts to come back out, lift the presser foot and turn the material 90 degrees and start sewing again. Doing it that way will likely result in no skipped stitches.

I use a Cobra Class 4 machine ad that process works for me every time.

I hope that helps.

Bud

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

Thanks for the advice guys, it sews like a dream with the correct turning discipline!

[Rayban]

Easiest way to remember is if the needle isn't on it's upward stroke, it hasn't picked up the bobbin thread yet. And without the bobbin thread, you have no stitch if you lift the foot.

[BDAZ]

Check out the Cowboy 3200: http://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb3200.html

I received mine a few weeks ago and i am thrileld with it. It costs LESS than the used machine you are looking at and uses all the accessories of the 4500. It comes WITH the servo motor, and I ordered it with the stand from the 4500.

Cya!

Bob

[Rayban]

Check out the Cowboy 3200: http://www.tolindsew...com/cb3200.html

I received mine a few weeks ago and i am thrileld with it. It costs LESS than the used machine you are looking at and uses all the accessories of the 4500. It comes WITH the servo motor, and I ordered it with the stand from the 4500.

Cya!

Bob

Pretty nice machine...but only rated at 1/2" thickness, his is 3/4".

[BDAZ]

Actually the 3500 is 7/8th not 3/4 which is substantial!

Thanks!

Bob

[Rayban]

Actually the 3500 is 7/8th not 3/4 which is substantial!

Thanks!

Bob

I have the 3500...while the foot will lift 7/8" I wouldn't try stitching as much...just a little too much.

[Wizcrafts]

Actually the 3500 is 7/8th not 3/4 which is substantial!

Thanks!

Bob

True, for the CB3500, 4500 and 5500. But, not true for the new CB3200. It "clears" up to 5/8 inch but only sews up to 1/2 inch. The walking feet need vertical space to alternate up and down.