Do Buyers Really Just Not Care?

[TXAG]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/169288621/leather-notebook-folio-for-35x55?ref=listing-shop-header-0

So there are buyers that actually prefer stuff that looks like this vs. made with attention to detail, care, straight cuts/stitches, etc.?? I'm baffled...it makes me feel stupid putting the care I do into the things I make if people seem to like (maybe even prefer) things that look like they were made by a child.

And yes, I am sure my stuff isn't perfect, but it looks a heck of a lot better than that...I would be embarrassed to try to sell something that looked like that.

[Matt T]

You know, just because someone is selling something, doesn't mean people are buying. I doubt that many of these will sell.

[Cyberthrasher]

Unfortunately, I do see people by that crap on there all the time. But, this guy hasn't sold any. All he's sold is handkerchief's, a few pen holders, and some pencils.

Just keep posting your stuff at your price and if it sells, cool. If not, screw it, they'll be back when the crap they buy fails.

[JLSleather]

Yep, it happens. I've actually seen at craft shows .. people literally ELBOW their way in right past some decent looking stuff to get at some stuff that looks like it was dragged behind the car.

I asked about that (repeatedly). Turns out, there are some people who think that it should look "craftsy", and any well-planned and carefully done work takes away from the "Crafty-ness" of the finished goods. "Leatherworkers" (notice the quotes) actually add to the zoo. They make crap, so they'll "market" it as "rustic" or "distressed" when the truth is it's beat up, wrinkled, and poorly dyed.

So, it's not limited to Etsy by any means. But, on Etsy, if you post your stuff amongst a couple million listings of 39¢ jewelry, well ... expect those clients. In the end, all you can do it make stuff the way you want to make it.

Some people prefer to improve the quality of the goods. Others prefer to bang out [whatever], and then spend their time on Facebook (or similar) convincing people they "meant" to do it that way... I'm with you -- I think their time would be better spent with some practice.

Nothing we can do about either one.

Edited November 15, 2013 by JLSleather

[Cyberthrasher]

yeah, that actually brings up a mental thought I have quite a bit when doing my "rustic" dye jobs. I always wonder why it's so much harder to do a clean looking rustic job on purpose when there are so many people out there who do it on accident all the time, just not so clean looking. I put a lot of time into making sure there's a good balance of color gradiants in those jobs and making sure that they're all in just the right area so nothing looks out of place. Then there are other ones that are a complete "road worn" appearance which I've put a lot of time in to figure out the best way to give it a used and abused appearance without sacrificing the quality and reliability of the product. Then I turn around and see utter crap thrown together that people go nuts over!!!

[electrathon]

I do not understand it either. There are a lot of leatherworkers that do very poopy work, on here too. It makes the hair on my neck stand up every time I hear the statement, "no one will notice but you". Or, "I wanted it that way". The worst one is, "It is my style". Bad is bad, just because you do poopy work does not mean poop is in style. Everyone will notice, just many are too polite to tell you how bad your work is.

Also, distressed/aged quality is far different than new (or old) poop quality.

Aaron

Edited November 15, 2013 by electrathon

[humperdingle]

The pic of the pen holder section is particularly meticulously-edged

[benlilly1]

I agree with ALL!! I can't understand it either how some of the crap sells. I usually have a pretty good eye for quality and I know right at the first glance if it's good or not. I know I have a lot to learn but I know crap when I see it!

[AndyL1]

Oh. My.

I'm actually feeling a bit embarrassed for the guy. Maybe if he stumbles upon this thread hopefully get some constructive criticism out of it.

[Studio-N]

consider WHO the target audience for this is. Probably some HS or college kid with about $20 in his pocket. Not $200 but $20.

Look, the average leather worker is somewhere between 2 and 3 hundred years old. We've seen a lot, we know the difference between good and bad, but the target for this is what I call the "walmart generation". They are not looking for quality (not that they could spot it) but for price. You think they are finding good stuff at walmart? It is simply what they are use to.

I sell handmade belts at the local flea market. We get a good price for them. The average buyer is over 50 yo.

Young guys that look at them and the price we generally get a "Hell, no" as they walk off. And when you see what they are wearing

it is usually some broken vinyl made in china POS.

So say what you will, if this guy knows his audience, he is selling some. For my part....YUK!

[Cyberthrasher]

So say what you will, if this guy knows his audience, he is selling some.

But, he isn't selling any.

[dirtclod]

He's sold 12 things and has feedback for two of the things pictured.

Edited November 16, 2013 by dirtclod

[hornm]

I blame it on video games and rock 'n' roll....

But seriously. This is the "disposable generation" that we're dealing with. They probably wouldn't know what to do with something that was actually made to last. Similar in a sense to the keeping up with the Joneses (hope I stated that right) mentality. Something new is going to come out here soon that you'll just have to run out to get so that you can be just like the rest of the herd.

Just keep in mind that "our" target audience are those few people around that still know what a quality item is. When I say "our" I mean your since I haven't made anything yet that I would be comfortable having someone give me money for.

Horn

[electrathon]

I haven't made anything yet that I would be comfortable having someone give me money for.

Horn

We are working on that. Are you coming tomorrow to Tandy?

[benlilly1]

I'm usually on here for learning and seeing some of the fabulous works. If I see posted photos with "what do you think?" and I know the work is not that good I usually don't comment. If someone is asking for help and wanting to learn I'll give my 2 cents if I can but I won't say it's good if it isn't.

I have a story that I may share later that keeps me on my toes with leather working. I'm usually my worst critic and I'm always striving to improve. Which reminds me, I need to get back to work!

[hornm]

We are working on that. Are you coming tomorrow to Tandy?

Yup. I need to find my strap cutter and get some of that latigo cut if you can still split it for me.

I have a story that I may share later that keeps me on my toes with leather working. I'm usually my worst critic and I'm always striving to improve. Which reminds me, I need to get back to work!

I hope to hear that story sometime. I've really liked what I've seen of your work.

Horn

[electrathon]

I have a story that I may share later that keeps me on my toes with leather working. I'm usually my worst critic and I'm always striving to improve. Which reminds me, I need to get back to work!

Striving to improve and being your own critic is why you do good/better work. Continuous improvement is the goal.

Yup. I need to find my strap cutter and get some of that latigo cut if you can still split it for me.

I will bring in the splitter if you are bringing the leather.

[chiefjason]

Sometimes the buyer just wants something that will do the job. I've sold 2 holsters recently that had set in my garage for months. One had a bad spot in the leather show up after dying. Or more likely, I missed it until I dyed it. Customer saw it and bought it for a training class. Said he would beat it up far worse that weekend. Next one was built for a bull barrel gun, but I got the inside dimensions out of whack and the front sight would catch inside the holster. The guy that bought that one had a shorter, non bull barrel. Gun drew just fine. I cut them a deal on the price, they got what they wanted, and I turned inventory into a little money. I've got another one that a buddy saw today. He wants me to finish it for him as a second.

Sometimes the customers needs don't fit our ideas of what they need. So I always keep those seconds around for people to look at. I won't ship one out. But if someone looks at it and is fine with the issues, then we both part ways happy.

And most folks have no idea what we look for in work. I'm such a holster snob anymore I annoy myself. Most people don't even look at them hard.

[OdinUK]

I guess you get what you pay for. Its my opinion that most folk in this disposable society want it cheap and don't have an eye for detail or don't care. Thank goodness there are folk who do appreciate a quality hand made item and are willing to pay for it. I'm one of those guys

[Red Cent]

"There are a lot of leatherworkers that do very poopy work, on here too." Boy, that is going to make us newbies paranoid.

ChiefJason, I agree. I have some hanging in the shop that I won't ship but they are very functional . I won't sell them until I get better. I recently made a couple for some paying friends and the response was great. Makes me feel a little better.

My first ones were terrible but I didn't know how bad they were. Between Cas City and here, the bar is being established. One step at a atime.

[LNLeather]

Everyone’s circumstances are different than ours…

buyers and sellers -

some are just doing the best they can,

some are handicapped,

some are just learning,

some are getting better with encouragement…

some can’t afford better,

some know the seller and are trying to be supportive....

some like the item for a number of reasons and if you knew how bad

you made someone feel because of your comments about their work,

you might not make it public next time....

I think there is room for everyone to try

[TXAG]

Ok, as far as the etsy guy I posted a link to in my first post -- in order for someone to "feel bad" about what someone else says about their work implies that they actually care what other people think. That is clearly not the case...they think their stuff is awesome and slopped it together like that intentionally so it would look "artsy-craftsy" or something (I happen to think it's because they don't want to 'waste time' doing things the right way when they think what they did was 'good enough') and they're happy with how it looks. They don't care what other people think because if they did, they'd take some time to cut straight lines, finish edges, and stitch straight.

It shows a lot of arrogance for someone to put something like that up for sale. But that's just my opinion. I agree with almost everyone else in that's posted in this thread.

Also, there's a huge difference in reluctantly selling items that aren't up to your own standards....and selling stuff that looks like that and not giving a crap about what it looks like...even being proud of it looking like that.

Edited November 16, 2013 by TXAG

[Sylvia]

Hold on here folks. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Some people LOVE the rustic look of things. Just because we hold ourselves to a higher standard doesn't mean that gentleman's stuff is crap.

I'm personally in the process of "dragging behind the car" a nice piece of HO leather I am making a holster from. The person wanted it to look old and worn... and he's paying me to do it. I asked him 4 times if he was sure... he kept saying "Yep" so I beat it with a lava rock yesterday... scuffed it up with 80 grit sand paper... and will sand at it again when the thing is finished so it looks like it's had the hell worn out of it.

Please step down from your high horses.... and come back to earth. We each have our own idea of what looks good...

[JLSleather]

Okay, Okay, Syl - yer right Each his own.

BUT, I done heard some fellas got boyfriends. Long as they aint sellin it at MY house ...

Oh, yeah .... send us a message let us know how the project's comin'

Edited November 16, 2013 by JLSleather

[Drifter Wade]

Walmart and other places like them cater to a much different clientele than most of us grew up around. The younger generation of working people follow fads that change rapidly. If you look at the boarded up storefronts in small communities that used to sell products that workers took pride in making, and realize that they could not compete with the Walmart stores that moved into the area, you begin to realize that everything has changed from the buyers perspective. When I'm asked why my items are priced so high, and I explain that the material and workmanship is far superior to the bargain store version and that it will last for many years, I get a funny look with a response like,...."Who cares, I like new things all the time." or, "I can buy five new saddles for the price of one of yours.".......There it is.