Measuring A Western Gunbelt/cartrige Belt...?

[Jimbob]

Ok, I made a few western rigs...By luck they all fit pretty well...I know how to messure a reular belt and I am aware that a hip measurement is needed for a gun rig belt....My question is:
How do you position the billets to the main gun belt....and how much overlap the main gun belt needs...how does all this measure up to be the final right lenght ( hip measurement )

Also where do you position the buckle billet...does it hang over or right where the main gun belt ends...?

Seems to be rather simple but I always panic when it comes to get this right on a gun/cartrige belt...?!!

Any info would be helpful...

I do have this wonderful book called Packing iron....but of course no help on how to measure...

thanks

Jamesg

[Dwight]

Jimbob, . . . I picked up my cowboy making from John Bianchi, . . . off his videos.

Using his ideas, . . . I set the buckle so that the inside edge (where the face of the belt rubs) is even with the end of the belt (see picture).

I set the tongue of the belt so it is also at the end of the belt (see picture). With a 2 3/4 to 3 inch setback to the first hole, . . . it makes the thing come together well, . . . rides good, . . . and I've never had but one complaint. I made a 55 inch gun belt some years back (it took several weeks), . . . customer took it home, . . . called and said it was too small.

I adjusted it for him, . . . but always wondered how many doughnuts it took to add 2 inches to a 55 inch waist.

Anyway, . . . those pictures are from the very first one I ever did (for an old uncle who as since passed on and it was returned to me as a gift after his passing) and the only thing I have added is that I use 7 holes in the belt now instead of 6 as in that one.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Jim]

How about I make it easy for you, Pard. When I get home I will post a gun belt pattern that will take all the guess work out of it. It even comes with a size chart that actually works.

Jim

[Jimbob]

Dwight, thanks so much for your info and help....the pictures made sense and I think I am starting to see what I am doing wrong...but any more info other like to share would be great...Also Jim...thanks for that great offer to provide a pattern to all of us out there....nice move !!

As I said,, I am bitten by the Cowboy bug and it seems I am having fun too....haha..

Again, thank you for the info and input....!!!

James

[Jimbob]

A few pics of some rigs...note the tongue is way to far out I think now.....buckle is so-so ok...?

Seems there is lots to learn....hahaha...

Jimbob

[Dwight]

I actually have a 2 piece "pattern" I use. I made it so that it allows for a 4 inch additional length, and is marked for waist size. One piece is the billet end, the other the buckle end, . . . they come around together to form a pattern for the belt. I directly trace the belt blank off this pattern.

I can measure the buyer's belt he is wearing today, . . . (say a 38 waist), . . . set it at the mark for 38, . . . it will lay me down a pattern for a 42 inch belt.

It already has the hip curve, . . . holes punched for tongue and billet, . . . makes life easy. Guy comes in wanting a cowboy rig, . . . if he has to turn around in my driveway before leaving, . . . I can have the pattern set for him before he is on the road, . . . 600 feet away. And so far it has only had one problem customer, . . . he gained 2 inches while I was making his rig.

I would imagine Jim's is similar, . . . but just make sure what you do works, . . . and when you get it working, . . . write it down, make a pattern, take copious notes, . . . so you won't forget by the next one you do. Now "YOU" may not have to do that, . . . but this old redneck would forget most anything not done in the last few days.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Jim]

Hmmmm, no, mine is a little different and simplifies making gun belts. I got sick and tired of misplacing the billet and shooting myself in the foot with a belt that came out too short by an inch. (A show of hands - how many of us had done that?)

So, I made a 60 inch belt tester and sized up fellers from big to small and made references to their pant size. After a few test belts and positive results I created the size chart and was able to make a well fitting belt for a customer based only on his pant size. This was a huge advantage to mail orders. The chart tells you how long to cut the main belt of the Ranger style and the templates show where to place the billets. When you see this setup, you're gonna love it.

Jim

[Jimbob]

Hmmmm, no, mine is a little different and simplifies making gun belts. I got sick and tired of misplacing the billet and shooting myself in the foot with a belt that came out too short by an inch. (A show of hands - how many of us had done that?)

So, I made a 60 inch belt tester and sized up fellers from big to small and made references to their pant size. After a few test belts and positive results I created the size chart and was able to make a well fitting belt for a customer based only on his pant size. This was a huge advantage to mail orders. The chart tells you how long to cut the main belt of the Ranger style and the templates show where to place the billets. When you see this setup, you're gonna love it.

Jim

I would love to see this pattern/chart...

Cant wait till you post it here !!

Thanks for sharing...

james

[Dwight]

My only problem with doing it by pants size, . . . I had a feller one time ask me to make him a belt. i asked what size, and he said he wore size 36 Wranglers.

Being a bit cautious, . . . I measured his belt, . . . and found that the hole he used most was between a 39 and 40. The 36 Wranglers had "stretched" so to speak.

If I had made him a gunbelt based on his say so, . . . it would have buckled only in the very first hole on the billet, . . . if at all.

That is the reason I insist on a belt measurement, . . . but if the other one works, . . . that's great too.

May God bless,

Dwight

[robertmeco]

Hmmmm, no, mine is a little different and simplifies making gun belts. I got sick and tired of misplacing the billet and shooting myself in the foot with a belt that came out too short by an inch. (A show of hands - how many of us had done that?)

So, I made a 60 inch belt tester and sized up fellers from big to small and made references to their pant size. After a few test belts and positive results I created the size chart and was able to make a well fitting belt for a customer based only on his pant size. This was a huge advantage to mail orders. The chart tells you how long to cut the main belt of the Ranger style and the templates show where to place the billets. When you see this setup, you're gonna love it.

Jim

I would love to have your pattern if you don't mind thank you in advance Robert

[Jim]

Okay fellers, due to the size of the files I can't post the patterns and instruction . . . .YET! I sent a message to Johanna (our Guardian Angel) and asked if she can post and pin them in the Gun Leather Section. Huff! hate when this happens.

Be with you soon.

Jim R. Simmons

Etowah River Productions

[Red Cent]

Problem solved:).

The biggest problem for me is them measuring their belt. Si I send them this.

[Jim]

Alrighty then, I sent the patterns and instructions to Johanna and she will get it posted in the Gun Leather Section soon. Now, I've read just about every way in the world to measure a belt and they all work, just so you know. However whenever one starts measuring here, marking there, and making a pile of notes to keep up with what's what - something usually gets lost or misread. (A show of hands!) So, I figured out that if you can start with a belt blank cut to the specific length needed for that waist size then you're way ahead in the ball game. This pattern set does this with a size chart that is tried and true along with Billet placement templates that are used to mark the ends of the Ranger Style belt for the exact fit. The Plains Style belt has belt end templates to where you won't need countless belt templates cut to various lengths cluttering up the room. Belt end templates, Billet templates, belt loops, bullet loops all wrapped up in one little package on your work bench marked "belt making stuff."

Coming soon,enjoy.

Jim

[Procyon650]

I hope she posts this real soon. I am planning to sew up my first ranger style belt this morning. Take about your timely posts.

Now I am beginning to wonder if I should wait and see if there is anything I might be doing wrong. I have already cut the blank too short the first time. ( Now I get a new belt as the test piece and I will take another run at the client's belt later)

[Dwight]

Well, . . . I was out in the shop earlier this morning, . . . just happened to have my camera, . . . so here is what I use.

# 1 is the whole thing laid out on the floor

# 2 is the tongue end, . . . with the place where I pop the hole for either a Chicago screw or concho, . . .

# 3 is where the two pieces come together, . . . this time it is set for a 40 inch waist. Again, it will make a 44 inch belt, . . . but that is adding the necessare "extra" so the gunbelt fits over the hips like it is supposed to.

# 4 is the buckle end, . . . showing where I pop the holes for the buckle retainer

# 5 is the templates I use for the tongue or buckle end. These are standard ones from which the customer can choose, . . . if he wants something different, . . . takes more time, . . . costs more $$$.

Anyway, . . . that's how I do it, . . . set the belt pattern, . . . mark it, . . . cut the front, . . . mark and cut the back, . . . punch the holes, . . . and go for it.

This is a direct product of John Bianchi's VHS series of tapes on how to make a Western gunbelt.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dwight

[Procyon650]

I didn't realize that a gun belt is supposed to be curved. Why is that?

Is it more comfortable than a straight piece of leather?

[Dwight]

If you can imagine the scene where the bad guy and the sheriff face off in the middle of Main Street, . . .

The bad guy wears a regular belt, . . . the sheriff wears a curved one.

When a dust devil stirs up, . . . they both begin coughing, . . . but the sheriff's gun belt stays up, . . . the bad guy's is now down around his ankles.

If you didn't laugh, . . . you should have, . . . because that is the type scenario the curved belt is supposed to prevent.

Most of us who live long enough to grow old either wind up with way too much derrier, . . . or as in my case, . . . it went away. I keep mine cinched up pretty tight to keep it on, . . . and the curve does really help.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Josh Ashman]

I cut my belts straight with a draw gauge or strap cutter then form them into a curve when they are cased for tooling. I think it helps to get a hide to go farther and keeps thing simpler, but that's just my opinion. A single layer of 10/11 forms into a curve pretty easily. The picture below has buscadero drops so I cut it with the drop loops towards the back off of a new hide. that gave me a straight edge that I cut both cartridge belts and regular belt blanks from until I was down to the belly.

As for how to figure out length and placement, I use a 15" tongue billet with 7 holes spaced @ 1" starting 3-1/2" from the end and a buckle chape that measures 6" from the center of the fold to the end, overall length is probably around 8" or so. I place the buckle at about the end of the main belt body and put the 3rd hole of the billet wear the customer currently wears a gunbelt. This works for me to get a balanced looking rig. A rough estimate for sizes is that Levi or Wrangler pants size to a regular belt is about +3" while the same pants size to a cartridge belt is about +6". Everybody is different but that is generally pretty close in my experience.

Best regards, Josh

Edited April 28, 2014 by Josh Ashman

[Dwight]

I will not make a belt for anyone based upon the size of his/her pants.

I almost did that once, . . . guy wore 36 Wranglers. Just for kicks and giggles, . . . we measured his belt he was wearing. I made him a 39 or 40 belt, . . . the Wranglers had "grown" as he did.

I just won't invest the time and effort until I have told the customer in absolute unmitigated terms, . . . "we gotta know" the size. If they lie to me or are too lazy to check for sure, . . . then the "problem" with it belongs to them if it don't fit.

But I don't make them off the Levis or Wrangler waist sizes.

May God bless,

Dwight

[351C]

Any word on when Jim's templates may be posted. They sound interesting and as I am preparing for my first cartridge belt I can use all the additional input and help I can get.

Thanks!

[camano ridge]

I have jims templates from one of his patterns they work quite well. He said Johana was working on posting them I have not seen them posted yet. You might PM Jim he is a great guy to work with and can probably help you out.