A Small Cnc Router

[leatherjo]

Have any of you heard of the Handibot? Here is the URL: http://handibot.com/index.php

Its made by the same people that make the Shop Bot. Basically it's a small CNC router. I'd like to use it to cut out small thin leather appliques (held in place with some kind of two-sided adhesive). But it occurs to me that I also might be able to use it to engrave metal hardware. I've sent the company a message asking them about the leather appliques. What do you all think? Do you all have any other uses for this bot?

[J Hayes]

http://us.cricut.com/home/ I wonder if this would work on your thin leather, the cutting mats are adhesive. My wife has one but no way am I experimenting with hers!

[HippieLee]

http://us.cricut.com/home/ I wonder if this would work on your thin leather, the cutting mats are adhesive. My wife has one but no way am I experimenting with hers!

if not leather I wonder how well it will cut stiffer plastic/acetate? Like what craft-aides are made from...that could come in pretty handy.

Edited May 23, 2014 by HippieLee

[DavidL]

you can add blade attachments to cnc routers.

[cem]

if not leather I wonder how well it will cut stiffer plastic/acetate? Like what craft-aides are made from...that could come in pretty handy.

I've got a Klic N Kut which is similiar, it will cut up to 1mm thick veg tan leather. I've also cut acetate but can't remember the thickness of it,you can also put a stylus in them and trace on veg tan leather which is what I do for intricate decorative sewing designs.

The handibot is kind of expensive for the leather use, you should be able to find a cheaper flat bed which would be easier to set up for leather. Aluminium and brass will also work on the lighter duty cnc's but if you want to use Stainless you will need something heavy duty.

[Glendon]

I'm really into this idea myself. Though I've been looking at an enclosed tool that doesn't have to be used in a "shop" envrioment. The Nomad by Carbide3D has really caught my eye. http://carbide3d.com The project is on Kickstarter right now, but these guys look like they are grearing up to be around awhile.

[WyomingSlick]

Screw you guys !

Once there were million of shoe makers who made shoes and boots by hand. Now there are just a few and the rest of our footwear is made by low paid, untalented people in sweatshops. Once there were millions of tailors, now most clothes are made in factories by semi-sklilled workers just like our shoes.

Yup.....progress ! Now we have CNC routers that can duplicate a carved wood panel in a fraction of the time it would take a skilled woodcarver.

Can you see a time coming when there is a CNC machine that can carve and stamp a piece of leather that is entirely faithful to the master carving that was scanned into the programming? It could be built right now with the existing technology we have !

As it stands now, it is hard enough to convince buyers to purchase handmade and handtooled items rather than that import thing at Wally World. How much harder......, if even possible.......will it be, if the other mass produced item is not only indistinguishable from yours, but better looking?

Now look a little farther down the road to nanotechnology. Those little machines wil definately put you out of a job and you can join the cobblers, harness makers, book binders, calligraphers, bufalo hunters, trappers, blacksmiths, and the rest of the long line of professions mostly found only in the history books.

[BAD HIDE]

Screw you guys !

As it stands now, it is hard enough to convince buyers to purchase handmade and handtooled items rather than that import thing at Wally World. How much harder......, if even possible.......will it be, if the other mass produced item is not only indistinguishable from yours, but better looking?

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but not all technology is out to get us. Cnc is a tool, like any other. If you use a sewing machine, clicker, or belt embosser, CNC is just one step further. Check this out for the commercial version of what leatherjo is trying to do. CNC tooling would be a pain to program, so you're safe there for now. All the different stamps needed, pressure differences, swivel knife work, etc. Then you'd have to start from scratch with the next piece, where as a good leatherworker can almost freehand the design and make it up as he goes from piece to piece. Commercially, they already just make embossing plates instead, but those don't have the same depth or character that tooling has.

I had the same conversation with someone talking about CNC tattoo machines, and I'm not worried my main gig's going away. Sure, they can copy a design, and might someday take away the small walk-ins and computer font clients. Sure I'd lose money on the short term, but it'd free me up to do stuff I'd rather be doing. I've yet to see a computer draw really good flowy script, whip shade, or even deal with different skin types, let alone design a half-sleeve from scratch.

[WyomingSlick]

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but not all technology is out to get us. Cnc is a tool, like any other. If you use a sewing machine, clicker, or belt embosser, CNC is just one step further. Check this out for the commercial version of what leatherjo is trying to do. CNC tooling would be a pain to program, so you're safe there for now. All the different stamps needed, pressure differences, swivel knife work, etc. Then you'd have to start from scratch with the next piece, where as a good leatherworker can almost freehand the design and make it up as he goes from piece to piece. Commercially, they already just make embossing plates instead, but those don't have the same depth or character that tooling has.

I had the same conversation with someone talking about CNC tattoo machines, and I'm not worried my main gig's going away. Sure, they can copy a design, and might someday take away the small walk-ins and computer font clients. Sure I'd lose money on the short term, but it'd free me up to do stuff I'd rather be doing. I've yet to see a computer draw really good flowy script, whip shade, or even deal with different skin types, let alone design a half-sleeve from scratch.

LOL Its not out to get ME. I'll be dead and buried before then. And I know damn well what CNC is. I was taking computer classes in 1974, long before most of you were even a gleam in your daddy's eye. As for programing such a machine, it would be much simpler than you might think with laser scanning.

Unlike tatooing which is done on a three dimension surface, most leather tooling is done on a flat piece of leather. The carving would be the easiest part. A line drawing with lines of varying width would be entered into the database. The width of the line would regulate the depth of the angle blade. Simple data entries would designate where each line starts and stops. Stepper motors would control the flow of the cut easily.

Beveling could be done very precisely because the narrow beveler operating at a thousand strokes a minute could follow every line precisely and to the depth required as determined by the scanning of the master carving.

Some of the other tools, such as cams and veiners, would need to be mounted in a gimbel type head which would control the angle at which the tool strikes the leather.

Other tools such as backgrounders and bargrounders could produce a perfect background. Instead of using bargrounders of varing sizes, a CNC controlled tool would consist of one single bead which the machine would use to fill in and produce a perfect pattern for the background.

The machine would finish by doing the dress cuts following a master pattern just like the original swivel knife work.

The only thing left to do, might be to have a human smooth out anything that needed modeling.

One thing about such an operation. The leather used would have to be of very uniform thickness and consistancy to produce good results. But then again, it would be possible to have a machine that would deepscan the leather and adjust the machine parameters to allow for slight differances.

As for your tattooing, that is not out of the range of possibilities either. If you know anything about nanotechnology, you should be able to see how in the future...... tattoos may not only be done easily by nanobots, but removed just as easily......with the result that you can have a tat job done for an event in the evening, and have it removed later that night, while you sleep, so you can go to work the next day with a clear skin.

[RavenAus]

It's ok Slick, Skynet will wake up and annihilate mankind before then

[WyomingSlick]

It's ok Slick, Skynet will wake up and annihilate mankind before then

LOL ! Ah well, survival of the fittest and all that ya know.

[leatherjo]

Great discussion here!! WyomingSlick and Bad Hide, you gave me a lot to think about. As far as the difficulty programming, I was planning on using Illustrator drawings imported into the Handibot as SVG files. Glendon, I looked up the URL you provided, but I could not find what kind of knives they are using. One of the reasons I like the Handibot is that they are using Onsrud knives - so there are a lot of knives to choose from. I also like the Handibot because they have a good size company behind them.

As far as the Cricut (and larger machines like the Black Cat Silver Bullet and the KNK Maxx-Air), I question the sturdiness of those machines and whether they can consistently cut anything over a mm without giving me fuzzy edges. Ioline also make an applique cutter, but it also does not look very sturdy, and it's $6800!!

BTW -- I'm interested in appliques because I intend to decorate high-end evening bags with multimedia embroidery done by machine (sorry WyomingSlick). So I'll be using Illustrator files any way.

[Greenbarn]

http://donektools.com look at the video there is one of cutting leather. I have yet to by the knife but they are very well regarded on the shopbot forum. I have no interest in debating the ethics of cnc. I own a shopbot & love it I have yet to combine it with my new interest in leatherwork. Programming today is a snap the preferred product today is Aspire or Vcarve Pro and they have plugins that work with drag knifes.

[leatherjo]

I've seen that Donek video many times, and I considered getting a desktop shot bot with a Donek knife. I have 2 problems with that idea though. One, if you watch that Donek video carefully, you'll see that one of the points on one of the designs is pretty ragged (probably tore when he separated the design from the rest of the leather). My second problem is that in an earlier thread on this forum, one of the frequent contributors to this forum wrote that he had used a CNC router repeatedly to cut leather without a lot of success. He did not say how thick the leather was, and I do not know whether he used veg tan or chrome tan -- but my guess would be veg tan. In any case, if I am going to have to limit my CNC use to thin leather, I don't want to invest in a full size shop bot. The handibot is a better fit for me. If you do get a shop bot, be sure to tell us how well it cuts leather!

[WillAdams]

I've been considering getting a Donek drag knife for my Shapeoko --- I find cutting leather tedious and trying, but would be patient enough to carefully pull pieces apart and finish any corners which it didn't finish cutting.

Probably though, a laser would be a better option, for the reasons stated by others already in this thread. I've been considering drawing up a set of items and filling up one of the leather sizes available at Ponoko and then ordering that --- it's kind of pricey though.

[RavenAus]

I was looking into a laser for my work but I was told it's not something you want anywhere near a house due to the 'burning flesh' smell. Even with top-quality extraction the supplier said it's something you want well away from other buildings.

[WillAdams]

Good point about the smell --- my first job out of college involved working w/ a company which had a location which did laser-cut/engraved rubber and it was noted as an unpleasant place to visit --- guess that decides for the drag knife.

[leatherjo]

Yes--I considered a laser. In fact at a recent show, I asked Epilog to cut some leather for me since they said their laser will cut leather. It cuts it, but it burns it badly. I have hopes that they will eventually figure out a wavelength that will cut leather without burning it. But until they find that sweet spot, I'm going to try the Handibot. The standard desktop Shop Bot is more than I want to spend for appliques.

[St8LineGunsmith]

seems the leather could be cased before laser cutting it to keep from scorching the edges.

[Northmount]

Laser only cuts by burning. No burn, no cut, just that simple. No other magic rays that cut.

Tom

[St8LineGunsmith]

You are telling that to a master welder/fitter

I know how a laser cutter works I used to work for a laser cutting company. the metal parts can be handled immediately after the part is cut and it also cuts very fast

I also know that a laser cutter can cut very thick pieces of mild steel but will only cut aluminum 1/4" thick the laser also needs a shielding gas (perferrably argon) to cut the material no gas no cut

[RavenAus]

When I spoke to the laser company they said it comes down to power. With a higher wattage laser you can cut faster which means less scorching. The other option is doing multiple low-power passes. Lasers for metal are rather different to the lasers for softer materials though, no inert gas needed. You do however need a very good extraction system to get the smoke out as it will interfere with the cut and can stain.

[St8LineGunsmith]

you will get a better cut with some kind of gas pressure to blow out the cut material out of the cut.

some materials would require less gas pressure than others.

Edited May 31, 2014 by St8LineGunsmith

[Northmount]

Leather as you well know doesn't melt. It has to burn, else will just shrivel up due to the heat. RavenAus is right about different power levels, speed, etc. affecting how clean the cut (burn) will be. Shielding gas to keep oxygen away will result in no cut, just a shrivelled line.

Tom

[St8LineGunsmith]

I really dont know anything about cutting leather with a laser my experience is with metal.