Buying Keestar Sewing Machine 441 Directly From China..

[korokan]

Now you are beginning to Grok what our dealers go through on our behalf, to deliver an affordable leather sewing machine.

It would be my biggest mistake if I dont get a CB4500 , after listening to you guys..

[amuckart]

Hi Korokan,

I think it's worth saying up-front that it's really great that you're asking these questions. Industrial machinery is a whole different world with different rules that aren't obvious until you've been there and seen them.

Why dont the dealer tell the company that market them to adjust it before they send to the US. This machine was designed for one function only to sew heavy duty thick leather. The reason it is marketed here is because for that one and only reason. Thatt is really hard to understnad why they would selll it not set for what it should be marketed for. If I order tons of machine from these people, I will demand it to set it right before I will recieve them. or before they make the delivery. Imagine how much money you spend just adjusting this thing before you sell them. It just dont sound right to me.

Dont these dealers ask for the samples of what the machine can do before they buy them. That is really a bad purchase f you still have to adjust the machine when these people from the factories can adjust the machine before they deliver them. That would be the last time I am gonna buy from them or would even not accept it.

That's because what the factory is doing is wholesaling industrial machinery and industrial machinery shipped wholesale comes with a completely different set of expectations than single-machine retail.

You wouldn't by a CNC bridge mill from alibaba and expect it to unbox it and just have it work. You'd expect to have to install it, level it, set it up, calibrate it, integrate it with your design workflow etc. etc. etc.

Industrial sewing machines are just like that, except that most people don't have expectations of CNC mills that come from having a small domestic model that they can take out of the box and have Just Work (not that that wouldn't be awesome, mind you!).

The other thing about industrial sewing machines is that by and large they get set up to do one thing, and they do that one thing day in day out until they're completely worn out. Factories that need more than one type of seam sewn that requires a different weight or colour of thread, or a different length stitch, will buy a separate machine to do each thing, because doing that is cheaper than interrupting workflow to reconfigure a machine. You can see this in the depressing videos of Chinese jeans factories.

That's where small single-maker shops are different, for someone producing bespoke goods in limited numbers an extra machine represents a significant outlay, and if you've only got one machine operator, the time lost reconfiguring the machine is comparatively small. Even so, most folks will have two or three industrial machines of different types for different work.

Factories that employ tens or hundreds of these machines have in-house mechanics whose full time job is looking after them. They guy who starts the narration of this great video about Puritan machines does nothing but service them for the shoe factory that uses them. Puritan machines haven't been made new for years now.

The dealers do ask for samples, and do do extensive testing of the machines before they order lots of them and put their brand on them and part of their process with that is working out how much work they need to put in to set the machine up and get it sewing properly for the work the customer wants to do with it, whether they can get the factory to manufacture the right sort of feet and plates and so on, and what the quality control coming out of the factory is like (it varies hugely from factory to factory).

Something that isn't obvious at all to folks who learn about 441 machines from this forum is that they were never designed as heavy leather stitchers. They're designed for heavy textile work, sewing things like cargo parachutes and harnesses. There are even ones that are specifically set up to sew cloth polishing wheels. They were first set up to sew leather by Ferdco, and the guy who founded that company patented some of the modifications that are required. That was about 20 years ago. To set up a 441 to sew leather you have to swap out the feed dogs, needle plate and presser feet, you also have to set it up for thick thread, make sure you're using properly aligned leather point needles, and power it with a low-speed high-torque motor.

I hope that helps a bit.

[amuckart]

Watch this video and see how many different machines get used for different operations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkvFBF4xT3o

[Constabulary]

@amuckart

the Video with the old Puritan machines is awesome! I like it very much to see that these old machines are still doing an great job.

[korokan]

Hi Amuckart,

Awesome video.!!

I am learning new things from you.

The old concept that China makes unreliable product pop up when you buy product from a factory and delivered to US as untimed and not in sync. Still the dealer insist on taking them as if they are desperate and spend Hours to adjust it. This is like buying defective products and fixing it yourself and repacking them to customer. While the customer think they bought a new unrefurbished product.

The concept of modifying a product and changing the feeddogs and plate are way diffrent when you received a product untimed and off sycn. Of all the deliveries they may make to the US, they still make off timed sewing machine all over again is unthinkable.

They should start sending all these factories back to the US, so the US worker can do it right the first time.

I remember a video from Harley Davidson that shows a motorcyle as soon as it come out of the assemby line, the tester would start the engine one time. If it dont start at one clickt, ti is declared defective right away.

I wonder what the German company like the Adler and Pfaff do different from the Chinese company. Since some of them are base in China, It is hard for me to presume they cant sew out of the box.I will take your word that they cant , and it takes a dealer to make it right.

I have a big respect for our local dealers , what they go thru to be able to sell the product in the us to customers needs.

Edited July 7, 2014 by korokan

[CowboyBob]

We also sell Adlers & have had some of them not sew out of the box.So we learned along time ago to test any machine Adler,Consew,Juki,Paff & Cowboy before they go out so we know for sure it was sewing properly when it left.

[korokan]

Sewing machine timing: To uncover the mystery of timing the sewing machine.

part1

part 2

Edited July 7, 2014 by korokan

[korokan]

Thanks a lot everybody. You guys are absolutely wonderful and helpful. I will have much to consider the adjustment needed and work being done by the professionals to make the machine works. i am lucky to be in these forum. Buying from China is too risky unless you understand what you are doing. Better off buying locally and a maintainance follow up when needed.

[CowboyBob]

Good video BUT, 441's use the same principal but adjust differently.

[Constabulary]

Sewing machine timing: To uncover the mystery of timing the sewing machine.

part1

part 2

Totally different machine with totally different hook. The one in the video seems to be a darning machine and is not even close to a 441 type machine. It has not feed dog mechanism.