Bobbin Tension Issues On Cowboy 3200

[vikingusa1]

I am having another issue with loops showing on the top of the leather. I am using a Cowboy 3200.

I think the issue may be the bobbin tightness but not sure. Sometimes the thread coming up from the bobbin is so tight it won't pull out.

At first we had the bobbin in upside down but we sewed with it like that for quite awhile (2 weeks) and then i had to change the bobbin out and put it in still upside down and now its doing top loops.

I have fiddled with EVERYTHING and checked the manual over and over again. I just can't figure this one out.

Can someone please shed some light on what this might be?

Thanks!

[dirtclod]

Loosen thebobbin tension a little at a time sew and check and you should be able to get back to sewing in no time.

Edited August 24, 2014 by dirtclod

[Tree Reaper]

If the machine is threaded properly, you have the correct needle and thread combination then tension could be an issue.

Do you know what the top and bobbin tensions are, have you measured them, can you pull them easily by hand?

Is there a take up spring on that machine?

[Gump]

Top loops are usually a sign of to little bobbin tension or to much top tension. Check to make sure the bobbin thread is coming out under the tension spring, and that it has slight and even resistance. If the top tension is to tight ,your top thread will lay straight on top, with bottom thread showing at each stitch. It is a balancing act to get the knot to stay in the center of your work. If your bobbin tension seems ok, then back your top tension way off and sew a few stitches, increasing the top tension by 1/2 turn and trying again until your stitches are pulled up inside on the bottom and not looping on top. Also check that your top thread didn't jump out of the discs and jammed in or around something it shouldn't have. Gump

[vikingusa1]

I think its the bobbin. We have been sewing the same material, same needle, thread, etc. for two weeks now. We filled the bobbin, started the sew and we started having the problem? When I first set up the machine I had the same problem and worked it out by loosening the primary tension. The boobin tension is perfect, then the thread binds on the bobbin? Could we be filling the bobbin wrong? or are we loading the bobbin the wrong way? (Bobbin should run Counter clockwise is that over or under the bobbin?)

Thanks sooo much for your time guys! learning something new is always a challenge! But, one I love!

Best,

Dave and Jackie

DJP Handmade

[CowboyBob]

Dave,

Gump gave you some good ideas,the bobbin thread needs to go over the top as it pulls so it doesn't slip out of the tension as your sewing.Also double check the needle thread as once in a whaile it canslide behind the 2nd tension & cause the top thread to be too tight.

[vikingusa1]

Also, The take up spring was rubbing on the side of the machine. Its not performing a full stroke up and down. I worked that out now have to adjust for a 3/8" stroke.

[vikingusa1]

Hey Bob,

I worked it out the last time we spoke. Something changed? Like I said we have been sewing for a couple of weeks withe same set up?

Dave

[vikingusa1]

We are thinking that when we wind the thread on the bobbin that something is amiss. at first (weeks ago) it went on unevenly when threaded but it sewed fine. Now when it goes on neatly it is catching and pulling when we sew. AND the loops are still on top.

We have played with the tension in every way possible, we have loosened the little feeder plate on the bobbin and back, we have re-threaded the machine to make sure we didn't miss a step, and the tensions are as loose as we can make them. If we go tighter it doesnt work.

THe thread is binding on the bobbin and that is the biggest problem along with the loops on top.

[Tree Reaper]

If I knew what your thread tension was I could compare it to my 4500.

[Wizcrafts]

Make absolutely sure to cut off the starting thread that protrudes from the outside hole in the bobbin, as close as humanly possible to the metal. A short thread stub can catch in the beehive ejection spring that lives inside the bobbin case.

Open the bobbin case, eject the bobbin and blow out any foreign material or thread particles. Loosen the bobbin spring screw and remove it. Feel the spring to see if it has sharp edges. If it does, use Emory cloth to buff it smooth. Blow out any thread particles that may be caught in the slot under the bobbin spring. Reassemble the spring and adjust it for a smooth pull that is not very tight, nor jumpy. Pull out a few feet of bobbin thread to adjust the spring for the smoothest pull with a modicum of tension.

Re-check the top thread path. Better yet, unthread the top thread and start over.

1. Pull the thread up off the thread cone, making sure that it doesn't loop around previous windings. Be certain to keep the thread from getting under the spool.
2. Feed the thread through a thread guide in the overhead stand arm. Keep the top thread guide arm inline with the spools on the round platforms.
3. Feed through a hole in the top post on the machine. If the thread is black and very coli-springish, wrap it around the post and feed it out through a lower hole. Otherwise, one hole will do fine.
4. Feed through the lube pot, making sure the thread doesn't hang on the sometimes tiny holes. Disregard if you don't have a lube pot. I enlarged the holes on my lube pot to reduce thread drag.
5. Feed the thread through the twisted steel loop on the lube pot. Disregard if no pot.
6. Feed the thread through the small steel guide in front of the top tension disks.
7. Pull the thread up, then through the disks until you hear it snap into place near the center post.
8. Feed the thread down through the guide over the bottom disks, then pull it to the left of the disks.
9. Wrap around the disks two turns, then feed it up through the same steel guide.
10. Going down, then up through the steel guide over the bottom disks helps keep the thread inside disks, rather than outside them, which causes thread jams on top and otherwise properly placed bobbin thread on top of the work.
11. Go through the check spring thread hole (make sure that spring doesn't bind again).
12. Go up and through the take-up lever, from back to front.
13. Go down and through a spring loaded guide on the faceplate.
14. Continue down, going through the lower steel guide.
15. Feed the thread through the little hole on top of the needle mounting bracket on the needle bar.
16. Thread the eye, from left to right.
17. Run some test strips, adjusting the top tensions as you sew. If you cannot stop the bobbin thread from showing on top, tighten the bobbin tension spring screw a little at a time, until the knots are balanced.

You don't normally need a huge amount of tension on top and bottom to get well placed knots and good stitches. You only want to have as much tension as is needed to place the knots inside the material and have the stitches flat against the top and bottom. If you have to bury the stitches to prevent abrasion damage, use a groover tool to gouge a sewing channel on top and bottom. Your stitches will then be recessed.

Always raise the presser feet before removing the work. With the foot lifter fully engaged, the threads should pull quite freely on top and smoothly on the bottom. Twist the thread to the left between your thumb and fore or middle finger and snip them close to the leather with a Tailor's thread snipper. I prefer a curved chrome plated thread snip (Bob Kovar sells them).

Next, use a straight blade screwdriver to finger-tighten the two screws that hold the shuttle cover to the end of the body. Then back them off 1/2 turn each. This gives some added clearance for the bobbin case to move laterally when heavy top tread passes around it. If those screws are all the way in the top thread might jam against the bobbin, bobbin case, or the shuttle itself. This doesn't usually apply to thin thread, like #138.

I hope this helps.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[vikingusa1]

Thanks Wizcraft! We did everything above. took apart and cleaned bobbin as well.

we did a test, and the first 2" did good and then the bobbin caught and pulled again. Something has to be wrong with the way the thread is being loaded ON the bobbin to begin with before it goes in the shuttle.

Question 1: when winding the thread on the bobbin, is your tension set at pretty loose or pretty tight...?

Question 2: when the trhead winds on the bobbin, it looks nice and neat and layered at one end and then the other ends looks a bit messy. This has caused the bobbin to catch sometimes. What is wrong with the threader?

Question 3: when the threaded bobbin is put into the shuttle, is your thread going over the top of the bobbin from L to R or is it going under the bobbin from L to R.

We don't understand why this all of a sudden started messing up after using the machine successfully for the past few weeks. The only thing was i switched out my bobbin thread (for the same size) to continue stitching a strap after the first bobbin ran out and then it started messing up and having the loops on the top.

It just doesn't make sense and we are so frustrated at trying to fix this thing right now.

[Wizcrafts]

...

Question 1: when winding the thread on the bobbin, is your tension set at pretty loose or pretty tight...?

Question 2: when the trhead winds on the bobbin, it looks nice and neat and layered at one end and then the other ends looks a bit messy. This has caused the bobbin to catch sometimes. What is wrong with the threader?

Question 3: when the threaded bobbin is put into the shuttle, is your thread going over the top of the bobbin from L to R or is it going under the bobbin from L to R.

Answers:

1. Not too loose and not too tight. Enough to get good close windings that lie next to each other.
2. Your movable thread guide (mounted on the front-left side of the machine) is too far toward or away from the head. Loosen the screw on the back of the guide. Push or pull on it until the bobbin loads equally, side to side. Then lock down the screw.
3. I usually insert the bobbins so they pull counter-clockwise. This is the same as the thread feeds over the top, then through the angled slot. However, some threads just tend to get hung up going through the slot and I will reverse the bobbin so it feeds clockwise (under the bobbin windings). When doing it this way one has to rely upon the anti-backlash effect of the beehive shaped spring inside the bobbin case. Left unchecked, the bobbin tends to loosen when rotating clockwise, vs ccw.

[CowboyBob]

Wiz,he has a 3200 w/a table mounted bobbin winder.

So you can move the tension unit to the side it isn't going.So if it winds more on the right move the tension unit on the bobbin winder to the left.This will help to even it out.

You might want to look underneath the tension spring on the shuttle for thread or lint ,clean it out & reinstall the spring & you need to tightin it until you get some tension,then get some scrap & sew a test piece & adjust as needed.

[Gump]

How full is your bobbin when fully wound? It should only be about 90% full. On my new Toro 3200, I had to adjust the winder kick-out as my bobbins were overfull and binding in the bobbin case. If you look at a full bobbin from the end and can see thread above the rim of the bobbin, there is to much thread on the bobbin. Gump.

[vikingusa1]

Sucess!!

Thanks you guys for the help!! It was pilot error! When taking out the bobbin we didnt realize there was a spring iside! It dropped out! Bob from Toledo sewing machines was great and sent us a new spring! The machine is great and highly recommend The Cowboy series of sewing machines!

With all the help from the members we have learned our way around the fine art of sewing of machines! We need lots more practice but, Practice makes perfect!

Thanks again! You guys saved a lot of frustration! Looking forward to sharing our ware's in the future.

Dave and Jackie Pressley

DJP Handmade

P.S.

Also adjusted the bobbin winder. It winds much more even.

[CowboyBob]

That's Great News !! :banana: :banana:

[csmartin73]

Congrats Viking on working out your issues. I have been reading along and now that one disaster is avoided I need some help too. I am going to attach a few pictures I hope!!! Here is my issue when sewing on some of the thicker portions of a holster my bottom thread seems to be very tight almost pulled into the leather, it does not look like the top. What tension should I adjust to even this out. I am a rookie on the 3200 and not sure if this is thread or bobbin tension issues. It may if fact be something totally different. I look forward to the replies. The first pic is top and the second is bottom.

[Gump]

csmartin73; Your bottom thread is supposed to pull up into the leather and leave the knot in the middle of your piece. It looks like your needle is to large for your thread or the wrong cutting point. With some points the thread is not able to fill the holes. Look up some needle point charts from Groz Beckert or Schmetz and they will show you the effect different cutting points will have on stitch appearance. These charts will explain it better than I can. Gump

[Tree Reaper]

Back off your top tension slightly.

[csmartin73]

When you say back off on top tension, are you talking about the thread tension? How can i check to see needle size. I am using the needele that came with the machine.

Thanks

[Tree Reaper]

Yes, top thread tension.

The needle sizes are marked on the package when you buy them or you could measure them to get the size or just contact the dealer and they can likely tell you what was sold with the machine.

[dirtclod]

Get a magnifing glass and a good light and you can read the size of the needle on the needle it's self. The number is on the big end where it fits in the machine.

[Tree Reaper]

That doesn't work for me, it requires microscopic magnification.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Tree Reaper

[dirtclod]

I was able to read the numbers even when i had catracts. Most of the time now i use two pair of reading glasses to read the numbers and it is a lot easier to see them to.