Need Help Finding A More Durable Finish For Cuff Bracelets

[Eirewolf]

I have a problem and am at my wits’ end, so I figured I’d come ask you intelligent and experienced people for advice. :-) I apologize if this is long-winded.

I have designed a cuff bracelet that fits various wrist sizes because it is slotted rather than clasped. I made a prototype that I have worn for months and months to “test drive” it, and it’s holding up great and gets a lot of compliments. But now that I’m trying to make it in other colors to sell, black in particular is giving me trouble. (By the way, I am using 7-oz. natural veg-tanned leather from Wickett & Craig.)

Mine is dyed Fiebing’s “LIght Brown” (which is actually a lovely mottled dark brown) sealed with full-strength Resolene, and it’s doing fine. I’ve had a couple since then crack beside one of the slots — that could be due to overcutting the slot and/or not conditioning the leather. So I’ve started using leather conditioner after dyeing, and also using a punch tool to cut the slots instead of a hole punch and utility knife, and I haven't seen the cracking problem again so far.

So here is the current problem… The several black ones that I’ve made recently have not held up to a stress test — the finish appears to rub off at the contact points. (See the picture for an example.) I haven’t made many colors, but my brown one doesn’t do this. (Of course, it’s possible that it DOES do this but I just can’t tell because the color behaves differently.) I have a dark blue one that has a similar issue to the black (though not quite as bad). It didn’t get conditioner, so I doubt it’s the conditioner causing the problem.

I have tried different dyes (Fiebing’s Pro Oil Dye, and Angelus Jet Black). I have tried Black Resolene (which has had the WORST results for this), as well as clear Resolene (both at full strength). I have tried with and without additional finish after the Resolene (Eco-Flo Satin Shene, or Fiebing’s Leather Balm with Atom Wax). I have tried PRAYER. :-) I have used up a lot of time and leather.

I need a durable and flexible finish that will prevent dye bleed when the person wearing the bracelet sweats, and that will not rub off at contact points. I suspect this is possible, as belt-makers seem to do okay… What finish do they use (or is it a certain kind of pre-dyed leather)? Should I be cutting the Resolene with water 50/50 (as I have seen suggested elsewhere in the forums), and would it solve the problem?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

[camano ridge]

If black is your main color concern make a batch of vinegaroon, it is not a dye it chemicaly changes the leather. You make it using steel wool and vinegar. A large batch is very cheap to make and goes a long way. It does not wear off. After dipping in the vinegaroon you will see your leather almost instantly turn black. Give it a quick dip in a water and baking sode bath then rub on some neatsfoot oil.You will get a very nice black. If you are not familiar with vinegaroon search the forums here there are several threads or go over to cascity.com forums to the leather shop under the FAQ's How to you will find omaking old time dyes. Lots of information there on vinegaroon.

Edited October 12, 2014 by camano ridge

[Eirewolf]

Camano, thanks so much for the reply, but my main problem is the finish/sealer, not the color. I am getting a nice even black with the dye (and tinted conditioner), but the finish is rubbing off... and I definitely need some kind of finish to protect my customers from dye bleed. I need the finish for other colors too.

[Eccho]

Eirewolf, you may be missing the point. While you are happy with the dye you are using it does not seem too stable, if it is rubbing off. If you do not want to try the vinegaroon idea, try a different dye. I make a lot of black products, 95% in fact. I love Feibings water stain. Very easy to apply, beautiful lustrous color, and absolutely no rub off..........ever! Appy...........buff...........apply finish........apply Auzzie cream...........perfect! Because most of my products are black, I am using Goof Proof finish from Springfield leather, it has a tan cast and would not be good for other lighter colors, but works great on black. I make biker cuffs and some have been in service now for several years with no bleed off problems. JM2C........keep smilin' ...... Eccho

[Eirewolf]

Again, thank you for the reply... but I don't believe it is the color itself rubbing off. It appears to be the finish. As I explained, this happened with a blue cuff as well, so switching to vinegaroon is not the solution I need. What I need is a durable finish.

[Dwight]

Eirewolf, . . . I'm going to go out on a limb here, . . . but it is supported by several years of past experience: you simply are applying the dye and the resolene wrong.

Especially the black dye, . . . cut it 2 to 1, . . . 2 thinners to 1 dye if you are using Feibings Pro Oil dye, . . . and let it dry, . . . 24 hours minimum. Then get an old wash cloth you never want to put on your body again, . . . and buff that piece of leather like you are shining your shoes, . . . buff hard, and seriously.

THEN, . . . cut your resolene 1 to 1 with distilled water (or some water that has VERY low chlorine in it).

Use a 1 inch, . . . cheap, . . . bristle brush (about 49 cents at a hardware store), . . . and lightly brush on a full coat of the resolene, . . . when it is dry, . . . 24 hours later, . . . buff it good just like you did the dye.

Then add a second, maybe third coat. Experiment, . . . you may need a 4th coat. I don't do more than 2 for belts and holsters and they hold up great.

Resolene and dyes are not made to be used full strength from what I've experienced, . . . so I really think that is your problem.

There is another finish you can try, . . . and I really like it for some of the stuff I do, . . . it is a mixture of beeswax and neatsfoot oil, . . . it makes a very nice finish, . . . doesn't allow bleed through of the dye if it is done right, . . . but is a more time consuming finish.

Anyway, . . . let us know how you make out.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Hillbilly tim]

Hey Dwight!, How are you dear Brother in Spirit?? you brought up the beeswax/neetsfoot oil mix. Do you make your preparation to be used as a room temp paste, a warmed paste or as a heavy bodied liquid? I have experimented before with a hot liquid mix. Thus wax had to be melted then mixed with the 100% NF oil to a usable product. I've considered many times what it would take to make a mix that was naturally low enough melting point that just hand tempatures would make it usuable as a leather peservative/finish. What has been your experience, I think it would be good info for all here.

Thanks,

Bro. Timothy

West Ky

[Eirewolf]

Dwight, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. It makes sense that I might need to cut the dye and sealer, but dangit, I wish they would say so on the bottle! It might have saved me a lot of time.

I have some denatured alcohol to mix with the Angelus dyes... What kind of thinner should I use for the Fiebings Pro Oil Dye?

Should I still use the conditioner (and if so, when in the process)? Will that have any kind of negative effect on the sealer?

Thanks again!

[Dwight]

I use Feibings thinner for their dye. In reality, . . . you don't save a lot, . . . but the dye goes on better I think, . . . plus there is a whole lot less ruboff and buffing that has to be done.

As for contitioner, . . . I really haven't used it enough to be competent to tell you much about it.

My "conditioner" I've used in the past has simply been neetsfoot oil, . . . used sparingly, . . . if at all, . . . as most of my stuff needs the rigidity, . . . belts & holsters and the like.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Hillbilly tim]

One of the best leather conditioners I've found is Bicks 4. You can even mix with your dye to aid in application for even take up and also condition at the same time. When used by itself it will really soften it up wonderfully. It even is safe for your hands and is great for healing skin cracks too!!

I've used it a lot and wouldn't be without it.

Bro Tim.

[Eirewolf]

Thank you! I used Dr. Jackson's leather conditioner, and mixed it with a little bit of the dye I was using. It didn't seem to mix very well, as it retained a lot of little lumps no matter how much I tried to mix the dye in. Next time I will try Bicks 4. That's what the guys at Springfield Leather use in some of their videos too.

[GoldenKnight]

Another option - one I have used successfully - is using Fiebings water stains and added some neatsfoot oil to my cup of stain, warmed it up a little more than room temp, then applied. It seems to go deeper into the pores of the leather and never rubs off. Let it dry a day, then Resolene, & good to go.

Resolene cut 50/50 with water.

[Manypawz]

Hillbilly Tim, I use my own beeswax / neatsfoot oil mix to finish some items. What I've found is that you need to use a quality beeswax, (sorry Tandy). I buy from a local beekeeper and the difference IMHO is noticeable.

I use a small mason jar, resting in a saucepan with about an inch of water. It's important to have the jar resting on something, not on the pan itself as it will jiggle around and could break. I've used a couple of skewers lying in the pan to keep the jar raised.

Then I melt 3 parts wax to 1 part neatsfoot in the jar on a gentle boil Next, I use cup cake liners in muffin tins and pour the wax into these, let them cool and I have nice little wax cakes.

The consistency is very similar to shoe polish. It took a little experimenting to get the right consistency. Note that if your first batch is too hard or too soft, just start the process again and add more of the wax or oil to achieve the result you like.

I actually re-purposed some wax coated cupcake liners and these work amazing, you can use them over and over again.

Hope this makes some sense....

[silverwingit]

After reading your post and the considered replies, I have a bit of a different slant on your issue.

I think it is not the finish but your dyeing process. I use Fiebings Pro Oil dye exclusively, with fine results -- or I would change. In my experience, optimal results with leather dye can only be achieved if the dye penetrates the leather fully, through and through. It looks to me like your dyeing only the surface, which will not be protected by any finish. I think this is one reason folks like vinegaroon. They dip the leather fully and the chemical reaction penetrates into the leather.

I do use alcohol to dilute dyes but only to allow me to adjust the final color. If I don't want a really dark shade I'll dilute 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, or 4:1 alcohol to dye to get the ratio that gives me the desired end result after I dye the leather. I do that by first prepping the leather well (I like Fiebings dye prep -- never dye dry leather), then soaking the leather with the dye, either by dipping or by heavy use of a sponge or swab. I dye both sides of the leather to ensure full penetration.

My point is that any finish will only protect the surface of the dyed leather. If the dye has penetrated the leather through and through, the finish can wear off without exposing any raw, undyed leather.

At least that's the way I see it.

Michelle

[adams484]

I make holsters and often wet mold after dyeing. I have tried every dye on the market. All of them. The ECO Flow professional dyes are the best as far as color fastness. When I use Angelus or Fiebings a yellow tinge (with the black dye) will develop in the water when wetting the piece. However with the DRIED Eco Flow I never get this bleeding of color. It has some kind of wax or something in it the seals it when dried. My holsters are mainly sold here in the south where we get good and sweaty in the summer so this color fastness issue is real important to me. My customers often wear a holster next to the skin and I don't want them telling me they got a yellow tinged backside because of my holster.

I really hate to say this but after you get used to Eco Flow it is hard to go to anything else. Oil based dyes are good but take forever to completely dry. Alcohol base dyes dry fast but bleed like heck. Yes guys I know if you seal it with acrylic it won't bleed until the acrylic wears through or the leather gets soaked enough. The reason I hate to say Eco Flo is because the only place you will get it is at Tandy and they have been getting difficult to deal with. That is the reason I have tried everything else and it failed to stand up to the Eco Flo.

You might try an oil based dye if you have the time for drying. But seal it well or have yellow wrists.

Edited November 12, 2014 by adams484

[jrny4wrd]

Adam, what are YOU using with your Eco flow as a finish? Have you used the beeswax? Also, it appears that the eco flow pro is very different in terms of their sample pack. Just wanted to note that since I originally tried their sample pack and there was a huge run off. Their pro line seems to stay.