Tandy Oak Leaf Vs Hermann Oak

[Leprechaunleather]

Simple question, is there much or a difference in quality ? what is the best leather and why ?

[Widget]

I can't speak for wepeveryone, only what I notice.... I find the hermann oak to be superior for a few reasons:

1. I think it carves a lot better. With the same swivel knife, I get better cut control etc. on the hermann oak. I feel like there's more drag on the Tandy, tho that could just be because I'm not that good at carving.

2. I find it easier to get an even dye job on the hermann. Using good dye, like firings pro oil, i get a more even look on the hermann oak.

3. This may be truly lack of experience or even a bad piece....I don't buy a lot of leather in quantity. Not even a little bit. I've onlh bought in the past year one side of Tandy and one of hermann...but I find that the weight of the hermann oak is more "realistic" than the Tandy. By that I mean, the 4/5 oz side I bought of the Tandy felt awful thin. Closer to 2/3 oz. Again, that could just be me not buying a lot of quantity.

This is all anecdotal, and of course, your mileage may vary. Let me know what you find, I'm interested in other perspectives.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Here it is in a nutshell:

Hermann Oak leather is tanned using one of the original vegetable based (from Oak) formula's that dates way back which gives the leather a true natural look when dried; the Tandy leathers (all of them) are tanned in Mexico using a more modern formula (not from Oak) that doesn't quite give you the color (dry or wet) that a quality oak tanned leather should.

The Hermann Oak leather is drawn from the top of the line U.S. Steer hides which are tougher and larger and they hand pick each skin that will be sent to their tannery; only the finest and cleanest hides make the cut, and that goes for all grades of theirs. Tandy doesn't quite put the emphasis on selecting quality skins to be sent to Mexico to be tanned and that creates a consistency issue.

Hermann Oak hides are very clean. I have even used some of the lowest grade leathers on certain items and found them to be much cleaner (free from scars, damage, etc.) than even the Royal Meadow sides from Tandy, and that is their top of the line grade. I use the Hermann Oak Craftsman grade bellies for some of wallet interiors and other items where I need a very lightweight (2 to 3 oz.) cowhide and they are much finer than the Oak Leaf 8 to 9 oz leather.

Hermann Oak stamps/carves & tools much better than anything Tandy has to offer and there is no competition between the two when finishing; Hermann Oak always gives you an even dye/stain/antique and finishing look every time; can't say that about any of the Tandy leathers.

Hermann Oak is consistent every time when verifying weight; none of the Tandy leathers can say this.

Put quite simply, if you have the chance to use Hermann Oak over any of the other leathers then do it. Yes, you will pay a bit more for Hermann Oak but you are getting a true Premium leather and it is well worth it. However, beware of this: Tandy has recently started to introduce Hermann Oak leather into their product offerings (in limited weights for right now) and I can tell you that their pricing is way over any other source/supplier for these same materials, even if you have their BEST pricing. There are other sources for the Hermann Oak leather and you will find that even at their highest price points they are still well below where Tandy sells to their Elite/Business members; and I mean WAY BELOW.

Tandy isn't as focused on trying to be the "Go To" source for quality leather crafting materials anymore like they used to be (and this was way back in their early days); their business model is more sales (as in marketing to larger groups such as correctional and rehabilitation programs, etc.) and that is evident not only by the product lines and their quality, but also by the simple fact that the vast majority of their staff are salespeople and typically have NO knowledge of the craft or how to use an item; they just know what the manufacturer information tells them and how they are trained to sell it.

[ALWGolf]

Tandy's leather is great to practice on but not for products to sell in my opinion. The weight is never correct from Tandy and it is not very pliable. When I bent the leather for a wallet the fat wrinkles were horrible. I have no experience with carving but for stamping Hermann Oaks or Wickett & Craig sides are much nicer. Spend the extra money and have a quality piece.

I also believe that Tandy has their leather tanned in Brazil.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Only their pigskin is tanned in Brazil, more specifically the Mission Grain pigskin lining leather. And it is now vegetable-tanned (using another lesser quality formula that also has a high wax content on finishing) as it is cheaper than the old way was. Much more stretchy now and can be difficult to work with.

Stick with the better quality of either H.O. or W.&C. and you can't go wrong.

[Chief31794]

I've used both in the past (25 years or so ago, Tandy had some pretty decent leather). I won't use Tandy leather, I use Hermann Oak exclusively. Never tried Wicket & Craig, because I have no reason to leave HO, I'm sure it's good leather, I'm also sure that you may get by using Tandy leather but eventually you will be very disappointed using it as compared to using Hermann Oak. I also tried some RJF leather but while it was okay I just didn't like it nearly as much as Hermann Oak. Just my $.02 worth.

Chief

[Gump]

Was in Tandy's today, and they had a pile of Brazilian vegtan sides. It was the softest temper vegtan I have ever seen. It was almost as soft as milled vegtan. Anyway ,from what I have seen, Tandy buys from whoever has the cheapest leather. Some from Brazil, Mexico and Eastern Europe. If you can get to a store, you can find decent hides at Tandy by times, but it is not HO quality. Gump.

[BDAZ]

What you didn't mention was the prices of these sides...$49 for 8-9 oz and 39 for 3-4 oz... My rep at my local Tandy always takes really good care of me.

Cya!

Bob

[NVLeatherWorx]

But those prices are for what Tandy calls their Craftsman Oak grade and these are so inconsistent that it isn't even funny. They do these special purchases around the Holiday's and at least two other times during the year. If you are solely fixed on price of leather then by all means stick with Tandy; but don't come around asking why you have one issue or another when using the leather or coloring it because we have pretty much already answered those issues. If you are a craftsman that believes in quality and that the finished product says "you" then you should not be using ANY of the Tandy leather.

This thread was about the quality differences, not the price, yet it seems that all anyone can focus on is the $ sign. The original question related to quality needs and that is where we have been taking this thread, let us not lose focus of where we were asked for help in understanding the difference in QUALITY.

[BDAZ]

But those prices are for what Tandy calls their Craftsman Oak grade and these are so inconsistent that it isn't even funny. They do these special purchases around the Holiday's and at least two other times during the year. If you are solely fixed on price of leather then by all means stick with Tandy; but don't come around asking why you have one issue or another when using the leather or coloring it because we have pretty much already answered those issues. If you are a craftsman that believes in quality and that the finished product says "you" then you should not be using ANY of the Tandy leather.

This thread was about the quality differences, not the price, yet it seems that all anyone can focus on is the $ sign. The original question related to quality needs and that is where we have been taking this thread, let us not lose focus of where we were asked for help in understanding the difference in QUALITY.

The two are inseparable. When you have a hobby business with an Etsy shop or two making a few wallets and belts, the bottom line isn't very important. I am under pressure to deliver my products to a wholesaler who in turn, will sell to the end user or possible another dealer. I need to keep my costs under control so the end user price will be competitive and the finish as to be consistent to match the photographs in the catalogs. To that end I purchase leather from various sources including Tandy and use the minimum cost/quality I can get away with that will keep my customer happy. Sometimes that's $12 -$15 a square foot and sometimes $5-$6. My experience with Tandy is that I can usually get a quality side for a decent price IF I sort through a lot of leather in the store. I have also had no problem producing consistency from the sides I select.

I also buy mail order from other sources at higher prices and have been generally pleased with the quality, though it's not significantly better than the better sides I get locally. I have only had to return 1 side due to quality issues.

I have never experienced " one issue or another when using the leather (Tandy) or coloring it" but maybe you have in which case I would suggest learning how to select your own sides.

Quite clearly Herman Oak is generally a better quality leather at a price.

Cya!

Bob

[Busterradar]

Yes there is a big difference in quality. Everyone as there personal favorite. Tandy is a great place to start with. When you want to start producing better quality looking project.....then you will start looking for better quality leather. Working with better quality leather really does make a difference. Each person needs to look at what type of projects you want to do like wallets, holsters, bags or etc. Are you tooling or stamping? Are you ok with scars or marks? Different qualities of leather will also make a difference in how it sews, burnishing, forming, and in dyeing. There are places that will sell Herman Oak in small pieces......my suggestion would be to find a small project and do it using a poor quality leather then try the same project in a better quality leather and compare them. There are some good places out there to buy quality leather from. Just my 2 cents

[BDAZ]

There seem to be two completely different approaches purchasing leather on this forum. The hobby craft approach, where costs, time and profit is unimportant compared to the quality of the final product. I have seen really beautiful, artistically hand tooled products, on consignment, in leather shops where they may sit for years but the price is prohibitive.

Then there is the business approach where costs and time are a compromise to produce quality products at an affordable price. When I started I assumed I would be producing mostly hand tooled custom products but I was wrong and my current demand is for high quality hand made items at affordable prices, not cheap, but affordable. I have also discovered that both my wholesale and my end user customers couldn't tell the difference between Herman Oak and a good piece of Tandy leather once decorated, dyed and stitched. If I were getting $200--$300 for a belt or strap, I would definitely be using one of the top leather producers.

Of course there are the leather artists and they are in a separate category and price is no object for the fine items they produce.

My current project is using drum dyed leather from RJ. I just finished cutting my current order which used 3 sides and my leather costs are around 25% of the wholesale price. Hardware, time,. consumables and other overheads are another 35%. The balance is margin which is just acceptable as a manufacturer. If I used more expensive leather my margins would fall and if I raised my wholesale costs, my orders would drop. Economics 101.

In my opinion, if you are not making at least 40% markup as a manufacturer, including reasonable costs ($25 an hour minimum) for time, it's a hobby. Nothing wrong with a hobby, but that's not what I do so I will continue to buy the best quality leather I can afford to keep my margins intact, invest in the most cost effective production methods and use the good stuff for gifts, and custom work.

I am so busy with my day to day orders, I haven't picked up a swivel knife in months and Christmas is coming!

So it's different strokes... Quality is in the eye of the beholder or the customer.

Cya!

Bob

[ftnpenlvr2]

Resurrecting an old post, it appears.  I am relatively new to leatherworking.  I got some leather from the local craft store (ReaLeather), a pair of shoulders from Tandy, and some various bits n pieces - belt blanks, etc, from European Leather Works on Amazon.  Nothing high end, but, I have churned out a purse for my wife, recovered a footstool, and made a checkbook cover for myself, a few belts, and have started churning out some cast iron pot holders. 

I have been relatively satisfied by the leather I have gotten from Tandy, as being far superior to the ReaLeather and ELW stuff, from a tooling perspective.  It has taken impressions well, stamped well, and, when I have kept my tools sharp, carved relatively easily - occasionally a little "draggy," but not anything I have been unable to control.  I have never tried Hermann Oak.  That's next on the list, and I am looking forward to it!

With all that said, I stopped by the Tandy store, this week, and picked up a small piece of the 5-6 oz Oak Leaf, to make the checkbook cover.  Maybe because it was already stained, I found it pretty miserable to work with.  When I sprayed it, to case and start tooling, the water just beaded up, so, I assume it had been "finished" in the store.  I ended up spraying the back side to get it dampened.  Once I had, it took impressions reasonably well (when hit with a heavy mallet), but did not carve nicely at all.  Once I was done tooling it, I had a checkbook cover I was not too dismayed by.  I used my airbrush to fade to black on the edges, and sealed the edges with Fiebings black Edge Kote, and it looks pretty decent.  That said, I would not offer it up for sale.  I don't intend to buy more; the plain shoulders I bought tooled much nicer.

The way I see things at this point, I can use the remainder of the shoulders I bought from Tandy to make some things for around the house, and make tap offs.  I will look forward to seeing how those transfer to a premium leather, and am eager to try making some pieces to sell in the near future...

[JayEhl]

Probably not adding much at this point but since the post was resurrected....

After going through a few of the starter kits from Tandy, I purchased a several of their craftsman shoulders and even a side as I've been afraid of buying leather unseen.  Fortunately, I live in Houston with three Tandy stores, two about equal distance for me to drive.   Not an inconvenient drive time (about 35 min one way) but an annoyance to pick up just one thing.    I then bit the bullet and bought an HO side from Springfield and was very pleased.  It did tool better and seemed...well.... worth it.   I am only a hobbyist, only built a few things for myself and use it for mostly 'art work -- and you should be laughing at that "art" statement!    I'll probably order more again from them, shortly but I am a hobbyist and like what @BDAZ said most people probably can't tell what was used after the end product has been tooled up, dyed and stitched up.  

[JLSleather]

I have found some VERY nice leather at Tandy stores.  Past few years, it's been hit or miss, luck of the draw kind of thing.  I thought it was maybe what I said at that manager (who's gone now) but it's not just that one store   Can't remember if it was the "Oak leaf" or the "live oak" brand, but I know in the Iowa store its on the back east wall   Anyway, these days I want to SEE before I buy.

That said, I have also purchased "hermann oak" from Weaver Leather and Springfield Leather got some leather that would be acceptable for a doormat for people to wipe their feet on, and that's about all it was good for.  SLC also has sent me some doable leather, though you should order ahead of schedule, as you wont want to assume what you're getting.  I'll let them tell you WHY that is, should they care to.  Weaver sent me leather so bad I never gave them a chance to send me a second batch.  Seriously, I think many of these "retailers" are RELYING ON the new guy not knowing the difference, and since i had never ordered there before, they likely assumed that I was 'the new guy'.

If you're ordering Hermann Oak Leather, I can't stress enough - get it FROM HERMANN OAK LEATHER.  Next best option, if you only need 1 or 2 sides, call Cheryl or Carlos at Goliger Leather.  A bit more money than you'd pay per foot from the source, but when they say it's GRADE A, it really is... not some bottom shelf stuff that they're passing off for something more than it is.  Costs me a bit more in freight (ships from CA) but always worth the extra two bits. Call Cheryl, tell her Jeff sent ya.  She'll say "jeff who?" but she'll send you good leather