Verlane Desgrange Tutorials

[Bree]

I didn't see a thread with a complete set of Verlane's tutorials. I found a little website that had a bunch of them buried deep in the site. So I thought I might share it with those who are interested. She was quite wonderful for sharing her many techniques.

http://classicbells.com/verlane.html

Update by Mod 07/02/2015

http://www.classicbells.com/info/Verlane.html

Edited July 2, 2015 by Art
Update Link

[MADMAX22]

Very cool, thanks for sharing.

[MatthewD]

thanks Bree.. nice stuff

[Bree]

I haven't even had a chance to read them all. I have been very busy in training trying to keep my high paying IT job for a little while longer to finance my much lower paying but more fun job of making leather stuff!!

I first encountered her wisdom on Seigel's of California website some time ago. I like her a lot and it is a shame that she passed last year. I look forward to studying all of these tutorials myself!

VRocks!

[rcsaddles]

Thanks Bree,

I am going to have to print out somne of this to keep in my handy dandy notebook on my bench. I try to have things readily available while I am working. I especially like the time sheet to help with pricing your work. I tink I will incorporate that into my pricing. You know, that is where most of us fall short.

Once again, thanks.

Joe

[skipj]

Great site, covers things I haven't found elsewhere.

Thanks,

SkipJ

[Bree]

Thanks Bree,

I am going to have to print out somne of this to keep in my handy dandy notebook on my bench. I try to have things readily available while I am working. I especially like the time sheet to help with pricing your work. I tink I will incorporate that into my pricing. You know, that is where most of us fall short.

Once again, thanks.

Joe

Yepper!! That one caught my eye too. I have lost plenty of $$$ doing free or underpriced work for people who really couldn't care less if I lose on the deal. I have become a much tougher nut to crack in my old age. Nevertheless, I can still be cracked and I know it. So anything that helps keep me focused on the right path relative to pricing and business is very very good.

There is a nice article in the new Leathercrafter's magazine about cash flow and accounting statements. Very good stuff.

[jammon]

Thanks for sharing! There's some really good info on there.

[TwinOaks]

Thanks, Bree. Lots of good info there. I'm gonna bump this up to the boss and see we can link to it on the main page.

[8thsinner]

32mb of some of the handiest and complete set of tutorials I have come accross yet, Great find.

I would get this stickied, and or provide a link to all of them zipped in RAR files to make it easier to download the lot.

In my experience, stuff this good should be saved straight away, cause you never know when it will become unavailable.

[TwinOaks]

I just mentioned this to the moderating team, and received word that there is some ongoing dispute/conversation about some of Verlane's intellectual property and intentions for it. The MOD team is looking into it, so until then, I'll ask everyone to wait for that decision, and not shamelessly copy the content of that website.

[Vikti]

Thanks for the link, lots of stuff for me to study.

Looking through some of the files of tools and my wife said "no, you can't have all that" so I now have my shopping list together

Damon

[tonyc1]

I just mentioned this to the moderating team, and received word that there is some ongoing dispute/conversation about some of Verlane's intellectual property and intentions for it. The MOD team is looking into it, so until then, I'll ask everyone to wait for that decision, and not shamelessly copy the content of that website.

Too late!

[bruce johnson]

The issue is not what you do with material on someone else's website. I can assure you there is also a discussion starting about posting it as a direct referral on the forum page, but no dispute. The issue as I see it is making it an official referral from this forum by listing it on the home page, rather than a referral from an individual member as it is now. This material was not exclusively given to anyone as I understand it, IILG has it, DeeAnna hosted it for Verlane, and I am sure Verlane shared the master files with others as well. She sure sent me a bunch if not all of it. There was talk and speculation at one point on other forums about this material being published and the proceeds used to fund scholarships or charities. It may or may not ever come to be. There is a lot of speculation and no real clear answers, we know Verlane shared it freely, but things may have changed or will change in the meantime. The potential copyright implications to a group who runs on donations, sometimes in the red, and has no reserves is something that we need to consider before going with something that might be construed as "official". I don't see that same issue with a a member referring to it and sure don't want to discourage anyone from visiting this site based on the individual referral. It has only been 4 hours since this suggestion was brought up, and not everyone has had much of a chance to weigh in yet. In the meantime it is on the open internet, great info, and I would encourage anyone to utilize it.

[MADMAX22]

The issue is not what you do with material on someone else's website. I can assure you there is also a discussion starting about posting it as a direct referral on the forum page, but no dispute. The issue as I see it is making it an official referral from this forum by listing it on the home page, rather than a referral from an individual member as it is now. This material was not exclusively given to anyone as I understand it, IILG has it, DeeAnna hosted it for Verlane, and I am sure Verlane shared the master files with others as well. She sure sent me a bunch if not all of it. There was talk and speculation at one point on other forums about this material being published and the proceeds used to fund scholarships or charities. It may or may not ever come to be. There is a lot of speculation and no real clear answers, we know Verlane shared it freely, but things may have changed or will change in the meantime. The potential copyright implications to a group who runs on donations, sometimes in the red, and has no reserves is something that we need to consider before going with something that might be construed as "official". I don't see that same issue with a a member referring to it and sure don't want to discourage anyone from visiting this site based on the individual referral. It has only been 4 hours since this suggestion was brought up, and not everyone has had much of a chance to weigh in yet. In the meantime it is on the open internet, great info, and I would encourage anyone to utilize it.

Not that I disagree with you and I can see why you guys are hesitant but ..... I dont see why when it was free before that now some nonprofit groups should be able to claim rights to it so they can make a buck even if it is for a good cause. I think most of the people that start out in leather arent rich (money wise) and need all the help they can get in learning the trade and having some downloads that they arent having to pay for it kind of nice. If a group is running off donations then they shouldnt be copyrighting something so they can get money for it hence running off donations and not selling stuff.

Thats just my opinion, I see it as she wanted it to be free so it should be.

[trastu]

thank you very much, the site is very interesting. health

[Johanna]

Here's the deal: Verlane was a friend to me, like many of you, and I am not going to do anything disrespectful to her memory. She sent me a CD of this info before she died, but she was very vague about what she wanted me to do with it. She probably wasn't sure herself, and just wanted to know the material she had painstakingly put together wasn't lost. If her sister says, "Yes Johanna, please share that info with LW members!" I will be thrilled to do so. If her sister says, "We are going to publish that material and fund a scholarship in her name." then I'll be promoting the book, not undermining the family's efforts. This isn't a matter of legalities to me as much as courtesy and ethics. So, until I have the final word from Verlane's sister, I will not be uploading the CD to LW. Yes, you can see some of the material on DeeAnna's site and in the members-only section of the IILG, and I don't know whether or not they have permission to do so or not, but I won't be proceeding until I know her family's wishes. I realize it is valuable information, but you all can understand why it is so important for LW to do the right thing. Verlane entrusted me with a lot of her work, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

Johanna

[CitizenKate]

If a group is running off donations then they shouldnt be copyrighting something so they can get money for it hence running off donations and not selling stuff.

Thats just my opinion, I see it as she wanted it to be free so it should be.

Madmaxx22, I see your point, but I think you misunderstood what Bruce was saying about "a group running off donations". That group is us, and his point was that, as a non-profit organization with very little funds to operate on, let alone insure ourselves against copyright infringement suites, we cannot take the legal risk of publishing something we may or may not have the right to publish.

Regardless of how freely the information was shared before, the current copyright holders may have different sensibilities about it, and they do have the legal right to make that call.

Who else has it, and what they do with it, is not our concern. We do not know what arrangements they made with the owner of the material, so we are not in any position to question what they are doing at all, only what we should do. Johanna is 100% right to defer to Verlane's family, not only for legal reasons, but also because we respect Verlane and her family.

But meanwhile, (just my opinion) you all are well within your legal rights to enjoy the site as long as it is there to enjoy. Thanks for sharing it with us, Bree.

Kate

[8thsinner]

As soon as you click that link near enough you are given this text.

If you have a Verlane tutorial that you would like to add to this list, please email it to me at coyote@classicbells.com

I would suggest two things because of this.

Johanna, given that at the current standing the information given to you was to help leather workers, And the link posted is set up for the same purpose, You would be adding a personal entry to said site, sharing information which bears no connection to this site.

Given also that regardless of the nature of putting the information onto the main page can be related to possible infringement issues, again I point out that putting a sticky on this thread, or perhaps one similar with numerous links to FREELY accessible tutorials will not cause problems in any legal fashion. You cannot be held legally responsible for opinions and links to other sites which even some time down the line may be legally charged. If you could every one could be charged with some sort of connection to every crime going.

Recently there was a thread with lots of links well organized with leather stuff, perhaps we need to redo that thread or start a Favorite websites page and sticky it.

I could post a dozen excellent tutorial links right now without going through my thousands of book marks, I am sure there are more like me in that respect.

[Johanna]

See under the banner at the top of the page where it says "main page"? Click there for lists of suppliers, artists, tutorials, tips, tricks and other information.

Johanna

[Bree]

I hope I didn't create a lot of grief with this link. I have followed Verlane's leather tidbits for a long time. I didn't know her but I always felt that she loved sharing her knowledge with fellow leather workers. So as soon as I saw this collection, I said... Wow! The forum people, especially the new folks, can really get some benefit from this stuff. So I cross posted the link.

I never occured to me that Verlane would have any objection to people viewing the materials that she created for the community to view. And I still don;t think that she would. But I didn't think about the fact that she is gone and some people may now consider these things as valuable assets belonging to her heirs rather than shared wisdom belonging to the community of leatherworkers in general. Sorry about that.

[MADMAX22]

CitizenKate that makes alot more sence to me. Thanks

Also Bree no worries its good to share info and such, dont worry if it is too bad in some way will be locked or removed, the staff here is really good about keeping this place running smoothly.

[ClayB]

Bree,

I dont think you did anything wrong by posting that link here. Verlane was a friend of mine. She was a really special lady with a passion for leather work, and for teaching. She shared a lot of the knowledge she had gatherer over the years on public lists, and also privately with a many people. In the last few years of her life, she was spending a lot of time putting together as much of this information as she could on her computer. I kidded with her that she needed to publish the "Encyclopedia Verlanica" because it would take several volumns to hold all the information she has stored in her head. She told me she hoped to make the information available in some form, but didn't know the best way. She said publishing a book was very costly, and she was considering something like a CD, DVD or download. Her problem with this was keeping it from being copied and just passed on. That makes me think that she possibly had intentions of selling the collection of information. Every PDF page I ever saw from her did contain her copyright.

If Verlane was still with us, I have no doubt she would have allowed some of her material to be posted on LW. How much? I don't think anyone can answer that. I agree with both Johanna and Kate. We need to respect Verlane's memory and her family's wishes concerning this material. It is thier property now and up to them what they wish to do with it. If they give the ok, I'm sure Johanna and Leatherworker.net will do whatever she can to help pass on her knowledge.

Her website is still up in the internet, Verlane.com

[CitizenKate]

I hope I didn't create a lot of grief with this link.

No worries, Bree. Sharing the link was a good thing , very consistent with the open, sharing spirit of leatherworker.net, and we have no problem with members visiting enjoying the web site you linked to.

The debate was about whether we should link to it from the front page until we have some definitive answer what the copyright holders' wishes are. I'm confident that it will all get worked out.

But in the mean time, thanks very much for sharing it with us, and I hope this does not discourage you from continuing in the same vein.

Kate

[Bree]

No worries, Bree. Sharing the link was a good thing , very consistent with the open, sharing spirit of leatherworker.net, and we have no problem with members visiting enjoying the web site you linked to.

The debate was about whether we should link to it from the front page until we have some definitive answer what the copyright holders' wishes are. I'm confident that it will all get worked out.

But in the mean time, thanks very much for sharing it with us, and I hope this does not discourage you from continuing in the same vein.

Kate

Nah! No worries!! When I have something to share, you guys will get it pronto!! I simply haven't had very much time to do anything but study to meet the new responsibilities of my IBM job. I bought a little extra time before getting 86'ed over there so I am trying to keep that cash flow coming in to finance more leather working equipment!!