Third Saddle - Will James

[rktaylor]

I just finished this Will James that I started last July. Now I feel bad for asking Goldshot why his saddle took so long. This is my third saddle and I have tried to do something different on each one so I am learning something new. Lacing the swell cover was one of the new tasks. It’s a 15 inch seat on a Quality Mfg. tree. It’s Hermann Oak leather from Panhandle in Amarillo. Everything is hand sewn, but I have been looking for a machine.

Some of my struggles along the way were documented in these threads and a couple others.

Rigging Plates and Skirts: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=58791

I really struggled with this after I cut my skirts a little shallower than I wanted. I was ready to order more leather and redo them, but I got a lot of good advice for keeping them. I did change the rear rigging style which I think was a good decision. The original dees would have less movement than these. Plus I already had these dees that I didn’t use on another project. The rigging may be more prominent than some would want, but all in all I like the way it looks.

Cheyenne Roll: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=57986

This was my first Cheyenne roll though I did finish the one on my wife’s barrel saddle before I finished this one. With The roll and cantle binding this one was five pieces of leather whereas hers was only four (the cantle filler wasn’t part of the roll). I think I like four better, but sewing this went faster than I anticipated.

My daughter is coming home from college for the weekend, so we are going riding tomorrow.

Critiques are welcome and expected. Number 4 may be a ways down the line, but I want to learn.

Thanks,

Randy

Edited April 9, 2015 by rktaylor

[Goldshot Ron]

Randy,

You did a really good job on this saddle. I like the shape of your cantle roll. Your lacing looks good and flat. Now, here's my suggestions: work on your horn cap, you need to edge it where it is rounded off more and not so flat on the edge. From the rear your cantle looks fat, maybe 5 pieces of leather is too much. Your tooling looks good, but a bead along the edge of your tooling would have added to your tooling. Example, the BW on you fenders would look more finished if you used a beader, then the camo, then the BW. The beader that I use is a no. 4 single edge Gomph edger. I've used swivel knife beaders, but they cut the leather and you still have to come back and use an edger to make a nice bead.

Little things make a big difference and they're easy. Try lacing your flank cinch billets with a triangular lacing other than the loop type you used. This will fancy up your work and is simple. Again, your cantle came out good, I say this because Cheyenne rolls always give me pain when making them.

Also, was this tree made by Sonny Felkins in Utah? If so, how long did it take to arrive?

Keep up the good work, Ron

[oltoot]

You are doing great. Just a few thoughts and suggestions from years of making and using and looking and changing.

I think that you will be happier with the day to day performance of your plate and for that matter all riggings if you tip the angle just slightly forward, IOW drop the back of the rig plate down about 1/4 " from the horizontal. The idea being that the natural or "home" pull line will be angled just slightly forward so that the saddle in use will be held ever so slightly forward and not sliding back. Things are going to try to get straight on the horse's body so use that to the advantage of all concerned.

Having been through a few Cheyenne rolls now, make it a practice to take each of the pieces that make up that thing off between initial and final and using A 1" French edger to skive that fold down. A long taper on each side of center makes it not only thinner where all comes together but makes it bend better and sew better. Not so thin, of course, so as to make the roll turn out floppy but that happy medium. BTW the seat leather should be French edged only on the outside. That part of the leather that is covered by the cantle binding doesn't need to be nearly as substantial as the seat side.

Consider (after much observation and thought) not lacing or sewing your skirts together in back. This is one of those things that only comes into play every many many horses but once in a great while undesirable weight and friction will be brought to bear on a thin or naturally bony horse or with too much junk tied on behind the cantle. I see lots of disasters in the making with the bigger and bigger nylon combo packs being promoted for back country use. Even if it doesn't take the hide off, it's gotta be uncomfortable. I know, it could be considered giving in to the tiny percentage of possibilities but I for one have become more and more sympathetic to the poor horse's lot in this relationship. They give and give and just endure a lot without complaining until they just can't stand it and then they often get blamed for being idiots. Just my opinions on these matters.

Edited April 9, 2015 by oltoot

[rktaylor]

Ron,

I agree with you on the horn cap. I also need a better pattern for the wrap. I don't think it fit as good as I wanted. I need a little more work on my edges too. I am starting to get real picky and I figure that's a good sign. A beader is on my list. I was going to order a swivel knife beader from Barry King, but am reconsidering it now. I just dropped a pretty good chunk on tolls from Bruce Johnson. It's probably already in a box so adding an edger is too late. Anyway, I want to get a little more creative on my borders. I thought about the triangular lacing pattern on the billets, but haven't figured the pattern out yet. I will see if it's in any books that I have and it won't take long to redo it. To be honest though, I just wanted to get this together and cinch it on a horse. I have spent to much time building saddles and not enough time using them.

The tree is from Sonny Felkins and is easily the best I have seen, but that's a pretty small sample. It took about 8-10 weeks, but there were a couple hang ups with the order. It was definitely worth the wait and I know Oltoot speaks highly of their trees.

Oltoot,

Thanks for the tips on riggings and Cheyenne rolls. I kind of followed the Harry Adams book on the first Cheyenne roll and he doesn't roll the cantle filler over into the Cheyenne roll. That seemed to work out well for me and since it's a little shorter it doesn't look as bulky as this one. I can see where the skiving would help me get a tighter fit.

If I stick with my philosophy of building something different, then I don't know what #4 will be. Maybe I should let you guys vote on it. I have made two flat plates and two Cheyenne rolls, so I don't think it will have either of those.

I didn't lace my skirts all the way to the edge for the reason you state. Plus they are pretty short and curved back in some, so I hope they won't sore a horse. Regardless, point well taken. I need to learn more about saddle fit, so that should be a good undertaking before I begin the process again.

Randy

[Billy H]

My Hat is off to you Randy!

Being your 3rd saddle you have done a really nice job. Regards Billy

[Josh Ashman]

That's a great looking saddle Randy, really a nice job!

All the best, Josh

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Oltoot took all the words right out of my mouth, particularly about tipping the rigging and lacing the skirts. The rigging angle takes fussing with to get right, and can differ from horse to horse. It was the first thing I saw when I looked at your saddle. Level on the stand does not equal level on the horse. I also do not lace my skirts (anymore) for exactly the reasons toot stated. The Cheyenne roll takes practice to figure out what works good (about like everything else). Sometimes mine look good, sometimes not as much. Congratulations on finishing #3! I have 2 in progress that will have to wait now until the spring rush slows down, which could be next winter!

[rdl123]

Randy,

Congratulations - Really nice job!

It's neat to see your progression from saddle to saddle.

Ron L

[Goldshot Ron]

Randy,

I came across a diagram of how to tie the flank billet braid. The point can go up or down, that's up to you.

Ron

[rktaylor]

Thanks to all for the 'attaboys' and the tutorial on billet ties. I rode 10-12 miles last week and really enjoyed it. The ol' mare never complained either. When I put the saddle on the rack, I understood what Oltoot and Big Sioux were saying about the rigging. It certainly works, but it's an area for improvement.

Thanks again for the comments,

Randy