Question On Making Double Thickness Belt

[yldbill]

I am in the process of designing my first CCW gun belt and all the info says to get a double thickness belt for full size weapons. My question is,where do you end the double thickness at up near the buckle end? I can't imagine bending double thick leather around the center bar on a buckle. I am planning on using 2 layers of 8/9 oz leather,is that about normal for 2x thickness?

[Chief31794]

I may catch some flack but I don't normally make mine "Double" thickness. I make them two ways, one is I use a normal thickness cut from a belt bend which is normally 9/10 oz and then laminate a 4/5 ounce to that, I then skive the end just as I would a single layer belt before I stitch the belt or I laminate two 6/7 oz strips, when I do that I stop the second layer at the same place I would normally skive then feather it with a hand skiver. I don't have a preference both are very strong and very durable and look about the same once they are glued and sewn.

Chief

Edited April 29, 2015 by Chief31794

[Thor]

It may sound like a dumb question, but isn't 16 oz. and 18 oz. even a bit overkill for a gun belt? Shouldn't 10 to 13 oz. be sufficient?

[paprhangr]

Good Question

[Chief31794]

It may sound like a dumb question, but isn't 16 oz. and 18 oz. even a bit overkill for a gun belt? Shouldn't 10 to 13 oz. be sufficient?

I wear a Glock 19 every day on a single ply belt, the belt is about 6 years old and doesn't give or show signs of wear. So my answer is yes a normal belt is plenty, however, a lot of customers are convinced they need the extra heft, so I sell it to them. I never argue. If it were a Ruger .44 Mag with 10-1/2" barrel then maybe you would need something more, but who'd want to wear that "Hawg" every day or any day. Many customers think that a double belt should only cost twice as much, nope!!! You got gluing, sewing, not to mention when I do them, the bottom blank is 2" which I contact cement to the 1-1/2" blank then trim to width. Personally, I don't like the feel of the laminated belts, they are too stiff and bulky for my taste.

I think the idea behind the double belt comes from customers buying a 1911 or such, putting the holster on a Walmart Belt then when it wears out in about 10 minutes (just an estimate), they are convinced they need double to prevent that. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong, that happens a lot more lately.

Chief

[Dwight]

I make, sell, and wear a double belt.

I usually make them of blanks cut from the same hide, . . . generally cut side by side.

The better looking of the two becomes the outside, . . . which will wrap around and through the buckle, . . . come back and fasten to itself, . . . and lay flat next to the inside piece. I use good quality buckles, . . . and I Chicago screw them together.

None of my belts has ever been returned as being worn out.

Comfort is in the waistline of the wearer, . . . and while in the pulpit on Sunday morning extolling the virtues of Jesus Christ, . . . it sometimes is a bit more comfortable to have my thinner Ranger belt on, . . . but I also do not have my 1911, and two 8 round magazines hanging off it.

Sometimes, I will use one thicker piece and a thinner piece as Chief said he does, . . . but usually mine come from a 7 oz piece of leather. It is (if right on the money) .109 thickness which will result in a .218 thickness belt. The one I currently wear is right at .240 and is a little stiff, . . . but I personally like it better that way.

The ones I make and sell will generally start at .180 overall thickness for a slim, ladies belt, . . . to the .250 for Mr. Big Guy whose girth is substantial.

And, . . . yes, . . . a few thousandths of an inch WILL make a substantial difference in the comfort level it gives. There is no "one size fits all" in this question, . . .

I hope this helps you, . . . may God bless,

Dwight

Edited April 29, 2015 by Dwight

[Chain]

I remember reading somewhere that Peter Main also adds a strip of filament tape between the layers for strength on his belts, or maybe it was to stop wrinkling. Either way it can't hurt

[Dwight]

I remember reading somewhere that Peter Main also adds a strip of filament tape between the layers for strength on his belts, or maybe it was to stop wrinkling. Either way it can't hurt

Actually, . . . it can hurt.

First off, . . . the belts won't wrinkle unless the maker does some radically wrong things, . . . and secondly, . . . the contact cement will not adhere to the filament tape as well as the leather, . . . it can come loose, . . . leaving only the stitching holding it together, . . .

I prefer mine to stay "together" as long as it is a belt, . . . so I don't put any foreign object in my leather belts, . . . other than the metal and stitching.

May God bless,

Dwight

[klaykrusher]

I run the inside piece right up to the beginning of the slot for the buckle prong.

[paprhangr]

pictures anyone ?

[gmace99]

I think There is a video just posted in All about us and of topic. Jess Jones posted. This shows you how to make a gun belt...It is titled Watch our new leather shop talk series on you tube.

Hope it helps

[Rayban]

It may sound like a dumb question, but isn't 16 oz. and 18 oz. even a bit overkill for a gun belt? Shouldn't 10 to 13 oz. be sufficient?

The bar seems to be 1/4" thick for a true "gunbelt".....it will seem awful thick to someone who has never worn such a thick belt but you get used to it pretty quickly.....and they are comfortable as they will conform to your body in short order.

I use 9/10oz for the outer layer and 5/6 for the "liner"....I stop the liner just short of the fold and the 9/10 is (skived down to about 8oz) folded over the buckle.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Rayban

[paprhangr]

Rayban, what machine, needle, thread do you use on those good looking belts?

[Rayban]

Rayban, what machine, needle, thread do you use on those good looking belts?

Thanks!!

I have a Cowboy 3500...I use 207 top and btm with #25 needle. For the keeper which is 9/10oz. I change to a #23 needle and don't mess with any tension knobs...makes a nice looking stitch IMO.

[paprhangr]

What are you asking/getting for your gun belts?

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I personally like the look and feel of a double belt. That said, if not careful, you can overdo it. I like to run my belt blanks through my skiver and thin them down to 6/7 oz. that makes a nice heavy, but not too heavy belt, and if you like to dress them up by finger carving them on the inside, it leaves you with a nice flexable , heavy belt that will last and last. At the buckle end, I use the back/inside blank to go up to the bar on the buckle and glue and stitch it there. The outside blank then folds over, and I use either Chicago screws, (two) or snaps to fasten, that way the customer can change buckles if desired. Also like Chief, on the "hole" I skive the last 7" or 8" down to 1/2 thickness before glue and stitch, for a nicer feel. On doubled straps where extreme strength is required like, stirrup leathers and chinch billets I use doubled 6/7 oz. with some woven nylon belting sand-witched in the middle. Being woven it allows the glue to permeate through to the other side and therefore gives a good bond. Oh yes, and when you do that, be sure to use a hot poker to sear the nylon in each of the adjustment holes and the cut off end. Hope that helps.

Bob

[Rayban]

What are you asking/getting for your gun belts?

$65 up to 44" of belt size...beyond that we discuss.

[NVLeatherWorx]

If you are cutting the belt strap from the spine section of the side then you shouldn't need to make the belt double thickness, even for concealed carry. I carry concealed along with two 15 round back-ups and have never used a double thick belt. I use only 9 to 10oz. veg-tan for my belts so that makes a world of difference when it comes to how the leather "feels" with a holster and pouch attached. The idea behind the double thickness concealed carry belts has come from the wider use of the thinner weight leathers and those pre-oiled special leathers that are as flexible as a Yoga instructor; it was never intended to be used as a base of design when it came to the use of veg-tan belt leather (minimum of 8 to 9 oz.).

If you want to add a little extra to the belt where the holster and other supporting gear are worn then you can add an overlay of no more than 4 to 5 oz. over the TOP of the main strap but I would recommend that you give some designer look so that it gives the belt some style, not just thickness. The key thing to note here is the type of leather being used and the weight of the material.

Chief pretty much nailed it. And I have been using mine for about 24 years and it is holding up just fine without all that extra thickness.

[Rayban]

Richard, ...I see why you would argue the double thickness belt...but it's a fact...not opinion...that two layers of leather glued and stitched together will be more stable, stronger, less likely to stretch as readily as a single layer of the same thickness.

Think plywood.....same principle.

I don't blame you for arguing your case....I hand stitched a belt once. I vowed never again.

[OLDNSLOW]

forgive for being a newby and wanting to ask a question specially after the last entry, I am retired and been thinking about trying my hand at a few belts. At the last NRA convention here in Nashville there were plenty of belts on display and the double layered and stitched sure did look nice. And I guess the argument could go one forever as to what is best, but is the buyer wants a double layered for his 1911 then I guess that is what he gets, I know I wear one when I go out and currently use a double layer of webbing belt that is nice but is my tee is up some or not tucked in the webbing will rub and be a real pain. The question I have is, it all that difficult to hand sew a double layer of belt? again this something that I have been pondering for a while, and of course belts might or could lead in to other items and would probably want to end up with a machine so that raises another question, what would be the least expensive notice I did say cheap machine that might be used to work on leather with. I know that these questions have probably been asked hundreds of times but please provide some input.

Thanks

[Rayban]

Hand stitching a belt is not difficult, IMO, just time consuming.

As for a stitching machines (electric) I know nothing about cheap ones.

[OLDNSLOW]

I know there would not be any CHEAP machines, but hope that I might find a good used one for a reasonable price, thanks for the input in that it is time consuming to hand stitch, time is what I have a lot of.

[Dwight]

I know there would not be any CHEAP machines, but hope that I might find a good used one for a reasonable price, thanks for the input in that it is time consuming to hand stitch, time is what I have a lot of.

I actually have two machines for leather, . . . my belt machine is a Tippmann Boss, . . . usually on Ebay, . . . can be picked up for $1000 or so usually. I prefer it for belts & holsters as I can absolutely put that stitch where I want it. . . . and it will allow me to sew through 3/4 inch of dry leather. I have also used up to 410 thread in the thing.

My other machine is a Singer 111W155, . . . which I have a total of about $450 invested in it. It is probably older than me (70), . . . but it does a beautiful job sewing everything I put through it. The problem with it is that it does not handle the heavier thread and has a much smaller bobbin than the Boss, . . .

I'm going to do a belt for myself on the Singer one of these days soon, . . . but maybe someone else will chime in with their experiences on this or a similar machine.

I was told I actually overpaid the original $300 for the machine, . . . but then again, . . . I was happy with it, . . .

I added an electronically monitored motor that controls the speed pretty well, . . . but then added a 3 to 1 reduction pulley to slow it down further, . . . you could almost take a nap watching it sew now on its slowest speed.

If you are near Toledo, Ohio, . . . there is a sewing machine shop there that can fix you up with several different models, . . . he's one of the advertisers on here.

Others don't always share my opinion, . . . but FWIW, . . . if I had to hand sew double layer belts, . . . I'd probably find another line of work.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dwight

[OLDNSLOW]

Thanks Dwight, that is some of the type of info I am looking for, right now a grand would be a little out of reach for me but the singer would be. Thanks again and look forward to learning more here and didn't mean to jack the thread.

[rickybobby]

Thanks Dwight, that is some of the type of info I am looking for, right now a grand would be a little out of reach for me but the singer would be. Thanks again and look forward to learning more here and didn't mean to jack the thread.

Hi OldNSlow,

There are some folks that find hand stitching a relaxing and rewarding guilty pleasure. I have hand stitched a few belts (over 20 years ago) because it was all I had available to me.

Like Dwight, my first machine was a Tippman Boss, I learned to adjust, lubricate, and run that thing like a champ (the lube part helps it run smoother) Learning to adjust it was trial and error. I would over tighten, under tighten and run stitches until I knew exactly what produced an acceptable stitch on any thickness leather I was working with.

So many people just run a stitch and get on line and gripe about it and the machine. Tippman sends and excellent flyer on card stock paper that shows all the stitching problems and tells you how to correct them. It helps a bunch especially if you have never sewn anything before.

I sold my Boss many years ago, and miss it once and a while. I now have an Artisan 3000 and a Cobra 4 and for lighter leathers a Cowboy 628 table flat bed machine.

On some repairs and new builds (saddles) there is only one way to stitch a Cantle Binding or a Horn and that is by hand. The ability always comes in handy!

As far as prices, look for used. Tippman Boss I have seen for as little as $750.00 (the market was soft on those for a while) to $1000.00

I paid $1600.00 for my Artisan 3000 used from Steve at Cobra (it was a trade in) 4 years ago. (prices may vary.)

Your quality of work increases when you have a machine. You are more likely to keep a piece of work you spent 45 minutes hand stitching that maybe should have gone in the scrap bin as opposed to 2 minutes on a machine and tossing it aside and doing the project correctly (just my experience!).

Hope this helps and best of luck,

Rick