What Thread Size Is About 1Mm In Diameter And Can A 441 Clone Sew With It?

[DrmCa]

From what I could find on the web, it must be slightly over size 400, but I am not sure which size exactly. 415?

Or is it actually a 0.9mm thread in size 400? It is hard to measure correctly as the caliper would compress it.

Would that be a proper thread for the holsters?

And the machine part of the question: the specifications for Juki 441 say it takes up to size 28 needle.

Do the clones take size 28?

I looked at Tecksew 5100 and it says size 27. Is it a 441 clone and will size 27 needle work with 415 thread?

Picture is of the thread I am talking about. It is 3 strand non-bonded nylon sold for saddle and harness repair.

Edited August 21, 2015 by DrmCa

[dbusarow]

1mm = 0.0393"

554 thread is "only" 0.0326" and takes a #30 needle.

See chart here.

I don't think a 441 can handle that.

Dan

[JLSleather]

And WHY would it need to? Thread is far stronger than many people around here seem to think. A LOT of holsters are sewn with either 207 or 277 thread (or a combination of both).

Edited August 22, 2015 by JLSleather

[Wizcrafts]

It takes a needle and awl machine to properly tension #554 thread, or its equivalent 8 cord linen thread. A Campbell Randall, or Union Lockstitch machine can do it. Ditto for a Landis outsole stitcher (Landis F, G, etc).

FYI: I have sewn with #554 on a Union Lockstitch machine. It was a long time ago and I used my largest needle and awl combination:

[mlapaglia]

I do all my holsters and belts with 277. NEVER had a thread break on any of them. I use a 25 LR needle.

[25b]

I use 207 for belts and collars...I am sure it would work well for holsters too. It is like rope compared to the V69 and V92 I use to make my military tactical gear.

[Art]

The thread I use in my Landis 12s is in the 500s somewhere and is very close to 1 mm. Believe me, it is rope compared to the V-346 I run in my 441. I've seen Cyclones run that stuff all day long, but I don't even have a desire to put it in my 441s.

Art

[Wizcrafts]

Basically, sewing with 1mm diameter thread (top and bottom) requires a combination of things to be true, as shown below.

1. The machine must accept a large enough diameter, leather point needle to pass the thread. This is about a #30 (closed eye) needle for #554 thread.
2. The shuttle mechanism (driver, race, shuttle/bobbin case) must have enough clearance for the top thread to go around the bobbin and its case, and out, without binding.
3. The top tensioning and take-up components must be capable of exerting enough force and stroke to pull the 2mm+ (2 x 1mm) knots up inside the leather. Because such thick thread doesn't fold sharply, the total being pulled is more likely about 2.5mm.
4. The take-up lever and associated cranks must be rugged enough to withstand this force.
5. The presser foot pressure spring must be strong enough to hold down a stack of leather as the huge needle and thread ascend on the upstroke.
6. The bobbin must be fairly huge to hold enough thread to sew your project.
7. The motor will need to be very powerful and pulley'd way down and a 3:1 speed reducer will be required to punch through stacks of heavy leather with this large thread.
8. The entire machine, including its shafts, bearings, cranks, screws and frame must be built with this type of heavy use in mind.

The only sewing machines I am familiar with that meet all these criteria are Randall Lockstitch, Campbell Lockstitch and Union Lockstitch needle and awl machines. It may be that some of the Landis needle and awl harness machines can also handle #554 or equivalent thread. Or, a heavy duty shoe sole machine would do the job.

[dbusarow]

The top tensioning and take-up components must be capable of exerting enough force and stroke to pull the 2mm+ (2 x 1mm) knots up inside the leather. Because such thick thread doesn't fold sharply, the total being pulled is more likely about 2.5mm.

Wizcrafts,

I think the knots would be even larger. The top thread is forming a loop with two thread thicknesses being pulled up. And that loop is pulling up the bobbin thread that has two thread thicknesses being pulled up into the leather.

So there will be four thread thicknesses making up the knot.

With 554 thread that's 0.128", about 3.3mm even without taking into account thread stiffness.

Dan

Edited August 22, 2015 by dbusarow

[DrmCa]

Was at the machine dealer today and he showed me Singer 144 (if I remember correctly - it's a 30" or so long arm walking foot with a boat outside foot installed) that according to him takes size 30 needle and can saw 4 layers of 10 oz leather with 554 thread.

He also said that size 28 should be enough and that I am welcome to come by any time with thread and leather samples and he would let me sew on that Singer.

I only had 2 tiny pieces of leather 3/4x4" with me and he said those are too small.