New Table And Motor Or New Machine?

[lfab]

Hi all, this is my first post on the leatherworker.net forums, though I've been an anonymous reader for quite a while. Finally I have a question that I can't find an answer to:

I purchased my first walking foot machine, an Adler 69, a few months ago. I'm pleased with how it sews but there are a few things about it I would change if I could, now having used it a little bit. If anyone out there knows City Sewing in NYC, they're great but can also be a pain to get information out of and sometimes I doubt their opinions and expertise when it comes to these types of machines.

Anyway, here's what I'm looking for:

1. The table is too high. It appears that it could be lowered, but when I loosen the bolts nothing happens. ...?

2. The table design makes it difficult to build/install a removable flat working surface. Ideally I want to be able to 'convert' the working area to a flat bed when needed. Although not impossible with this table, it would be a lot less cumbersome with an alternate table design that includes some sort of surface on the left as well as the right that the removable work surface could then bridge (see attached photo). Also, this table is supposedly called the 'space saver table' but really it's about the most space-wasting I could think of! If I could design & build my own table, that would be awesome.

3. The servo motor speed cannot be adjusted. I've been reading on this website a bit about this. I guess it means I have a 'brushless' motor? Would I be sacrificing torque or anything else if I sought out a motor that is speed-adjustable? I've also been reading about EPS. I'd love to have that feature, too, if possible.

Given the wish list above, do you think it makes sense to try to kit out my purchase or attempt to sell this machine and re-buy another package that has more of the features I'm looking for?

Also, should it be better to stick with what I have, does anyone have any mechanic contacts in the NYC area who would be willing to help with the work? I'm always willing to learn, but I have to admit that I know nearly nothing about how to lower the table height, let alone install a new motor!

Thanks a lot,

Lauren

[TinkerTailor]

The table for this machine needs to be big to counterbalance the overhang.

Here is a very elegant flatbed solution which would work for your machine with a little adaptation: Others have cobbled together similar but significantly cruder tables for their cylinder arms.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=65589

Also, the design used by most of the juki 441 clone guys ie: cobra, cowboy, techsew could be adapted to your machine.

Before you lower the table you should disconnect the foot pedals, also it looks like the weight of the machine may have got the legs jammed up. Try with the bolts loose lifting up on the machine side while a partner pushes down on the other side. Be prepared to have the machine go right to the bottom of the slots as soon as its un-jammed. A stack of encyclopedia britannica under each corner of the table at the correct final height will stop this and hold the machine weight up while you tighten up the bolts.

Edited October 20, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[lfab]

Ok, thanks for the helpful info. Regarding the table... I understand the counterbalance issue. It still could be better designed -- then again i'm a designer and I think a lot of things in my life could be better designed!

Hopefully someone can chime in regarding the motor

[TinkerTailor]

New adjustable servo motors are 100-200 with most of the advertisers on the site. There are air shock and electric motor height adjustable tables out there but they are really pricey. They also involve interesting setups to accommodate pedal chain length. I also design stuff and i am working on an idea for the issue of an easily adjustable table that is easy on the pocket for these machines

[lfab]

I also design stuff and i am working on an idea for the issue of an easily adjustable table that is easy on the pocket for these machines

That sounds great... let me know if I can help at all.

Just out of curiosity, is there a go-to source for pre-made tables? I haven't been able to find any retailers online or off that offer any kind of selection, especially for cylinder bed machines.

Edited October 20, 2015 by lfab

[Constabulary]

How about a table like this. This is an Adler 105 I once have restored

[lfab]

@Constabulary, that's beautiful but i think I'm looking to get the working surface as flush as possible with the arm, like the examples that @TinkerTailor mentioned.

[dikman]

Looking at the first photo, the adjusting bolts appear to be at their maximum height. If it won't move, I'd suggest removing the machine first (to take some of the weight off the table) and then start fiddling around with the bolts. There's a fair bit of adjustment available, so no real reason it can't be lowered. As TT said, don't forget to disconnect the pedal linkage first.

As for the motor, did you get any paperwork with it?

[Uwe]

The really cool convertible table setups for cylinder arm machines are only available in Germany, it seems. At least that's where I get my ideas from.

Sieck has a few nice examples, like the Adler 69 setup with an arm-attached flatbed:

Or how about this Pfaff 335 arrangement with a flatbed slide-in table:

None of the above options are available commercially in the US, as far as I know.

For your table, it would not be too hard to make an extension that attaches to the existing table and a support leg or two on the left. Once you have a flat surface, you can make a four-legged slide-in table with a suitable cutout for the cylinder arm like the Pfaff 335 example above. This is the concept:

My Pfaff 335 flatbed table attachment (thanks for the mention, TinkerTailor!) actually does not fit the Adler 69 because the Adler has a longer arm. I plan to make an Adler 69 version over the next month or so, now that I actually have an Adler 69 in my possession to take measurements.

There are some U-shaped table options available in the US like this example from Toledo Industrial below. It would also work with both varieties of flatbed table attachments. I'm not sure if Toledo Ind. sells it separately, though:

I've also contemplated hacking this electrically height adjustable BEKANT Ikea table to make a sewing machine stand:

[gottaknow]

I order most new machines with a Kessler brand table. Unlimited configurations and height adjustable with a crank handle. They are on lockable wheels. They are however around 1k each.

Regards, Eric

[Uwe]

I came very close to buying a used sewing machine on Craigslist simply because it was mounted in an electric Kessler table! I wasn't aware they're available new in the States - I spent a fair amount of time trying to track down a supplier for them. $1K is a bit more than I'm willing to spend on a table, I'm afraid.

[lfab]

So I successfully lowered the table this afternoon but I think I may have broken it in the process. I can't seem to get the foot pedal to work with the motor in this new position. I'm worried that while I was lowering it one side kind of went down a bit faster than the other (as expected/predicted), and in this lopsided position, something may have bent out of shape that's now preventing the pedal/axle/extender rod thingies from moving properly no matter how they are positioned. Yet another reason why I dislike this table design! So many moving parts.

It's also quite possible that I'm just missing something, as I've never done this before. But after literally two hours of tinkering, I gave up and will try to have a mechanic come look at it tomorrow. But in the process of taking things apart and attempting to put them back together I've noticed that whoever put this together in the first place did a careless job. Just little details here and there... I wish I knew better at the time. So if the table is indeed busted, I won't be too heartbroken if I have to find another one. Except for the money, of course.

@dikman: nope, no paperwork. Not even a manual for the machine. It was a typical NYC garment district shit-show purchase. Lo and behold, I did end up finding the speed dial on the motor today. It's right on the back! I couldn't believe it.

@UWE: thanks for the interesting examples. If i'm able to keep this table I was definitely imagining a leg/legs like the one you pictured. Glad to hear that you're working on an Adler 69 version. I'm actually getting a laser cutter next month (!!!), which will make fabricating a custom-fit flatbed attachment not too difficult, provided I can find a good way to attach it. How did you develop the ring that attaches around the bottom? Was it something you found to fit, custom ordered or even 3d printed? And it seems like a lot of these examples, yours included, involve removing the arm cover and then using the remaining hole at the base of it as an attachment point?

@gottaknow: Those tables look serious. 1K is over my budget but I'm glad to now have the Kessler brand to keep in mind for the future.

Thanks for all of the helpful feedback.

[Uwe]

Judging from your initial pictures it looks like the linkage pulling down the motor's speed control arm was a pretty steep sideways angle to begin with. Lowering the table would have made that worse, pulling nearly horizontal instead of straight down on that speed control arm. You may have to switch things around to make the linkage rods point towards the back on the connecting shaft like in this picture:

The little clamp piece on my flatbed table attachment was lucky find of a ready made part that fit perfectly. Any two-piece item designed to clamp onto a 2" pipe is a candidate (I've gone through muffler clamps, audio rigging clamps, etc.) I can't give away all my secrets, but I will state for the record that I live near an IKEA store.

[TinkerTailor]

http://drdanessmh.com/khlegstanta.html

They have some table stuff in the usa.

Here is a Hardware store mod to the factory table included with the 441 clones. It attaches the same way as the table Uwe made.

[dikman]

I'm with Uwe. If you didn't release the linkages first they would have bent when the table was dropped, and if you did release them then they need to be re-aligned to reduce the rather acute angles showing on the first photo. The linkages look pretty simple.

[lfab]

I had a mechanic come yesterday to fix the pedal attachment. Everything is fine now, so I'll be keeping the table I have for the time being. I asked him about removing the arm plate for a flat table attachment and he advised not to do it. The arm plate on my machine moves slightly forward and backward with the needle/walking foot mechanism, which he said was important for one reason or another (he is Mexican and kind of difficult to understand sometimes). He also said it was difficult to put back together and didn't recommend me trying to take it apart. So in the interest of avoiding another expensive visit, I'll design my table to fit around the arm rather than over it, which means i'm probably looking at some sort of legs for additional support. We'll see when I start prototyping.

Anyway, I'd be happy to post back here with progress. I won't have my laser cutter until the end of November so it will be a few weeks before I'll be able to work with anything besides cardboard mockups.

[Uwe]

I'm glad you got your pedal connections sorted out. Post some pictures when you get a chance.

The cover plate on the Adler 69 cylinder arm has recess cutout on the underside to allow free movement of the swiveling binder connector below. If you replace the cover plate with a plain flat piece of metal, it'll press on the connector and nothing will move. You'll have to either machine a recess (hard), cut a hole (easier, like on the Pfaff 335,) or sandwich two plates together (bottom has a hole, top doesn't). Or you can leave the existing cover plate in place and design something that simply goes on top of it.

Here are some photos that show the underside of my Adler 69 arm cover plate with the recess cutout and the part that sticks up above the arm surface that the cover plate rests on:

[lfab]

@Uwe I understand that we wouldn't want to jam up something that needs to move and how one might fabricate certain components to achieve that... but what you think about the mechanic's comments regarding the back & forth motion of the plate being important to how material feeds through the machine? I never really understood what that motion was for and I'm not sure if I buy his explanation.

[Uwe]

Your mechanic must have been talking about the binder plate used when doing binding operations. That cover plate along with all the attached folder bits actually swivels front to back as you sew to synchronise the folder/binder movement with the presser feet movement. This video shows the moving binder plate on a similar machine. That version of the cover plate has a hole that fits snugly around the guide that sticks up, which moves the binder cover plate synchronized with the feed dog movement. The whole affair pivots around the swivel point on the right end of the arm.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Uwe

[lfab]

Ah, ok. That's what I have but I don't have any of the parts that are standing up, i.e. those two posts or the bike-rack-looking feeding part on the right.

Edited October 22, 2015 by lfab

[Uwe]

Yup, my cover plate is different. It's held in place by a little pin that goes into a hole in the arm. The cover plate does not move when I sew (you can see it a little in my power usage test video):

Yours is similar to this Kwok Hing cover plate:

Edited October 22, 2015 by Uwe

[lfab]

Well, it took a while for me to get my laser cutter, then had to get through the holidays. But I finally finished my table for the Adler 69 machine and wanted to post photos here in case it would help anyone in the future. Construction is pretty basic and accommodates the slight side-to-side movement of the plate on the cylinder arm. And it works with even the most unhelpful of table types for this sort of thing. I just attached some aluminum angle to the sewing table and then attached the sides of the flatbed to that. It's as stable as I need it to be, considering the plywood is 1/4", i.e. thin enough to be cut by my 80 watt CO2 laser. I could have doubled-up on the plywood if I wanted it to be more beefy. But I'm satisfied with it as-is. The sides are braced on the inside by hardware store corner braces (the small, four-hole type) and there's about 1.5-2" of sliding room at the side panel thumb screws for quick sliding in & out for bobbin changes. I sewed with it today and so far, so good!

Edited January 2, 2016 by lfab

[The Dawg Club]

Looks good! What type of products do you make?

[lfab]

I do experimental fashion stuff, bags, occasional upholstery sewing. I originally wanted to sell this machine and buy a proper flat bed walking foot, but I didn't have any buyers. Then I had the idea to try this and hopefully get still get use out of the cylinder arm when/if I need it.