Wanting Feedback On A Tooled And Dyed Belt .

[Tom Biesinger]

Mm second belt that I have ever made, loving the process wanting a bit of feed back on my work and all that jazz...

[Rohn]

Very nice looking belt. Looks good to me.

[stu925]

Tooling looks good, a very nice belt.

Stu

[Thor]

Being known for upfront comments... Your leaves and acorns are good. The acorns could benefit from additional cuts on their tips. The background was far too wet when tooled. To me it looks mushy. Especially on the second picture it's very visible. You should have let it dry for at least another 6 hours. Review hidepounder's explanation on casing and you'll understand what I mean.

[Bonecross]

Nice belt. Thor what was the the "tell" that the leather was not cased properly... is it the wrinkling?

Also, what type of fasteners were used near the buckle Tom?

[JLSleather]

That looks like a line 16 "segma" snap.

But I'd be willing to hear about the casing, too. "Casing" is one of those terms people like to throw to appear to sound like they know something. Like "burnish" and "walk the tool". I can tell if something was tooled wet. I can tell if your leather is currently too wet. But I don't believe ANYone can tell you HOW LONG it's been wet.

[Thor]

I should probably say my own experience of messing around with too wet leather. He's probably used a Craftool backgrounder stamp and if you inspect the background thoroughly you'll see how it bulged around the individual impressions. Happens if the leather is too wet and the casing process not completed or if people think they have to re-wet the leather and have no patience to wait until it settled and distributed evenly throughout the leather.

[Tom Biesinger]

Ill remember to leave it longer ... how long? Your comments are helpful

[Thor]

As Jeff in his bright enriched wisdom said, it's hard to tell for how long leather has been wet or how long it takes to have the right amount of moisture throughout the leather. Various factors such as room temperature, thickness of leather as well as the initial amount of water etc make it hard to give a proper estimate on time. The six hours I mentioned are based on my personal experience and definitely not based on any scientific facts... Usually I'm wetting my leather on the evening, bag it and let it sit over night before I touch it for cutting. After cutting I'm bagging it again, let it sit until it almost returned to its natural color and bevel it then and so on... If I get to a point where I have to re-wet it I'll do so with a slightly wet sponge from both sides of the leather and bag it again. Wait again until returned to its natural color and continue to tool. Yes this is time consuming, but there's always something else to do in the meantime.

This link takes you to hideponder's write up on casing http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19121

Just remember that each time you're adding water to your project you'll always remove some oil from it as well. Use as little as possible and as much water as needed and don't forget to oil it once you're finished.

[Tom Biesinger]

As Jeff in his bright enriched wisdom said, it's hard to tell for how long leather has been wet or how long it takes to have the right amount of moisture throughout the leather. Various factors such as room temperature, thickness of leather as well as the initial amount of water etc make it hard to give a proper estimate on time. The six hours I mentioned are based on my personal experience and definitely not based on any scientific facts... Usually I'm wetting my leather on the evening, bag it and let it sit over night before I touch it for cutting. After cutting I'm bagging it again, let it sit until it almost returned to its natural color and bevel it then and so on... If I get to a point where I have to re-wet it I'll do so with a slightly wet sponge from both sides of the leather and bag it again. Wait again until returned to its natural color and continue to tool. Yes this is time consuming, but there's always something else to do in the meantime.

This link takes you to hideponder's write up on casing http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19121

Just remember that each time you're adding water to your project you'll always remove some oil from it as well. Use as little as possible and as much water as needed and don't forget to oil it once you're finished.

the part about the oil I didn't know, that's helpful, does anyone know how to make that background more uniform? Or is that the casing that we are all talking about?

[Rohn]

Wow that is a lot of wetting and waiting. I've been working leather for about 40 years and I don't go through all that. Of course most of my work is stamping with basket weave although I do some carving. I use Pro-carv by Bee Natural Leathercare. I use a spray bottle to wet the leather on both sides and let it out to the air for a few minutes and when it is turning back to the natural color I start stamping. It works for me, I get good clear impressions, and I am busy making and selling holsters and belts. I'm pressed to keep up with orders. My customers are happy and so am I. I suppose if I was to enter into a show and be judged it would make a difference, but I don't intend to do that.

[silverwingit]

Since you asked, I do have a few comments. You have a great start that shows you are serious about making belts. You won't improve with a little "pat on the back" so I will take some time to offer several suggestions. In no particular order:

Your edges need attention. They should at least be rounded to make the belt more comfortable to wear. Even better would be proper full edge treatment. Expert Bob Park tells how: http://leatherworker.net/bob-park/FinishingEdges-2-15-11.pdf

Your tooling could be improved beyond the previous comments about moisture. Backgrounding should be done last when the leather is virtually dry. You need to practice your beveling. Beveling along the edges should be done first and the rest of the tooling on top of it. Also, it's too choppy; you can see each impression when you shouldn't be able to. Search Youtube for how-to videos and practice on scrap leather. Your pear shading is not crisp or deep enough and they should have a little curve to them that follows the curvature of the underlying leaf point. Your decorative cuts are too deep, too straight and not "feathered" at the ends. When you terminate a cut you need to lighten the pressure and gently lift the blade instead of ending them abruptly. They should also be shallower and more delicate than the stem cuts. The stem cuts are too deep, too straight and they aren't tapered together at the ends like a real leaf. In general your cuts are too "mechanical" like they were done with a kitchen knife instead of with the tenderness of a fine painter's brush stroke, to make an extreme analogy.

There is no reason for that long of a tongue after the position of the holes. It will be flopping around and will get annoying to the wearer real quickly

The tail end that's folded over has not been skived for improved comfort for the wearer. The best way is with a $600 splitter/skiver but with practice you can do it by hand using several different tools, from the inexpensive "safety skiver" to a good sharp dedicated skiving knife or a good head knife. This guy does a pretty thorough job of showing how a belt should be made.

https://youtu.be/BukX9SICOCc

Single rivets on either side of the keeper will concentrate the stresses too much and eventually stretch or even tear st those points. Pairs of rivets would be preferred but I personally would hand-stitch the buckle and keeper.

There's too much "wiggle room" between the buckle and the nearest rivet. That will allow the buckle to retract inside the fold. The first rivet (or stitch line) should leave the buckle snugly in position but still able to freely "swivel" to make it easy to put on.

Overall, you should do a little more homework before your next belt. Get a couple ~real~ oak leaves and study their appearance. Make a strong effort to make your tooled leaves look as realistic as possible. There is a wealth of how-to resources available these days, both printed and on the internet. Youtube is a fantastic resource and should be studied regularly and diligently. Tandy has a subscription video service that costs $10 a month that is full of relevant instruction. Al Stohlman has several germane books. This web site is a terrific resource. You don't need to look very far to find superb examples of anything you might want to attempt. You need to become you own worst critic. You will know when you've done something right.

With some study and more practice on scrap your next effort will eclipse this one. That's one of the great things about leatherwork. To paraphrase Joe Willie Namath, "I can't wait 'til tomorrow 'cuz I get better at leather work every day!"

Keep it up,

Michelle

Edited October 29, 2015 by silverwingit

[JLSleather]

Honestly, when I carve a belt, I usually add water with a sponge -- to the BACK (flesh) side of the leather. Flip it over flesh side down on the rock, and shortly it's ready to go. Never sees a plastic bag, chemicals, refrigerator, any of that.

Truth is, ther's moren one wayta skin a cow

[Tom Biesinger]

Michelle, love your critique!! That's perfect, love the tips and pointers! I'm looking forward to having another go. I'm looking forwards to the improvements... thank you

Tom ,

[Bonecross]

If those are snaps, I don't recommend them on belts, for fear of the belt coming apart during hard cowboy use

I would suggest either Chicago Screws with Blue Loctite if you plan to maintain it. Otherwise for a permanent bond, epoxy and solid copper rivets or full stitching.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Bonecross

[Tom Biesinger]

If those are snaps, I don't recommend them on belts, for fear of the belt coming apart during hard cowboy use

I would suggest either Chicago Screws with Blue Loctite if you plan to maintain it. Otherwise for a permanent bond, epoxy and solid copper rivets or full stitching.

I agree, with more needing to be done to secure it on, this particular belt I am giving to my broth e r in law who doesn't use it for work just dress. When I do my next belt for me I for sure will take that advice... I think I will stitch it

[JLSleather]

I wouldn't worry about the snaps. I made belts for a L O N G time with them there line 16 snaps.. and me 'n' some buddies worked out like animals. You CAN NOT get stomach muscle heavy enough or strong enough to pop the snaps.. the harder you push, the tighter you force the snaps (if they're properly installed).

The pressure down the length of the belt is on the buckle bar (heel bar, center bar, whatever) and the pressure front to back is ON the snaps pushing them TIGHTER together. Someobody tells me he kin pop 'em, I'd say I'd hafta see that.

[Tim Schroeder]

Hi Tom, Thanks for the positive comments. Moisture is one of the main things to get right when it comes to tooling. Here is a couple of pictures to see the difference. The one with the CC initials was to wet when I tooled it. I am still a little impatient. It looks a little mushy. When the leather is just rite the tooling will leave a darker color. The beveled lines should looked burnished or darker. Same as the thumbprints or pear shaded areas. You can see the flower centers are not near as crisp as in the other picture. Hidepounders casing tutorial is the one to follow. I fill my sink with water, slide the leather thru the water and you will see air bubbles coming out of the back. You don't need to wait until the air bubbles quit coming out but you need the water to penetrate all the way thru the leather. Then I put a piece of glass on it covering the whole piece for 24 hours, then take it out and let it dry until it is almost back to natural color. Both of those are tooled on 2-3 ounce leather. Good luck

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tim Schroeder

[Tom Biesinger]

Out of curiosity, what backgrounder do you use Tim?

The beveled lines should looked burnished or darker. Same as the thumbprints or pear shaded areas. You can see the flower centers are not near as crisp as in the other picture.

[Tim Schroeder]

Barry King Bargrounders I have the next to the biggest set 3,5,7,and 9 hole,and a smaller set about two or three sizes smaller. Both pictures are using the smaller set.

[Tom Biesinger]

Barry King Bargrounders I have the next to the biggest set 3,5,7,and 9 hole,and a smaller set about two or three sizes smaller. Both pictures are using the smaller set.

Thanks I like the way it looks, your advice has been helpful.

[Krakenfan69]

Can I just say this was an awesome thread? The OP came here looking for a critique and ways to improve and got just that. The comments were concise and to the point with explanations and examples of the problems and ways to improve. The OP was receptive to the criticism and took it to heart. I'm loving this site. While I'm a total newbie and can't yet come close to the work the OP posted I can see I'm in the right place to lean.

Kraken Fan #69