Servo For Adler 205-374

[llucas]

I have posted a few inquires about the Adler 205-374 I am rebuilding. The answers and suggestions have been most helpful as I am a complete newbie to sewing leather with a machine. It has been suggested that I replace my clutch motor with a servo and a speed reducer, which I am willing to do as I definitely see the advantage of a slower rate of stitching. Have any of you added a servo and reducer to your Adler 205-374 or your Durkopp Adler 205-370 and what would your recommend from your experience as a leather sewing pro? I want to get it right the first time without wasting time or money (which is in short supply, lol). I would like to get about one stitch per second (roughly) and still have plenty of torque to do the job. Recommendations?

[Uwe]

The cheapest and most likely perfectly adequate setup would be a FESM550 style 550Watt motor with a 3:1 speed reducer. The FESM style motors are old-school in the sense of using brushes and a simple dial knob to adjust speed (as opposed to brushless motors with digital display controllers), but they actually work surprisingly well.

The 441 class of machines is WAY more popular and has nearly equal specs to the Adler 205. Many vendors (check the banner ads) sell 441 style machines with servo motors and speed reducers. Look what motor+reducer combos these vendors use (e.g. Cowboy 4500, TechSew 5100, Cobra 4, etc.) and you're probably looking at a good system.

Top speed of the motor is irrelevant because you will never use it at top speed sewing leather. Power and torque are related, but any difference in motor torque will be far outweighed by installing a 3:1 speed reducer. The weakest servo motors WITH a speed reducer will provide more torque than the more powerful motors WITHOUT a speed reducer.

Out of all the servo motors I've tried, the FESM550 actually had the best low speed control out of the box. The others had an optical sensor that needed tweaking to work right (Enduro style motors), or a magnetic sensor that couldn't be tweaked (Consew CMS 1000).

I currently have an Enduro motor (220V , 1000 Watt) with a tweaked optical speed sensor and a homemade 3:1 speed reducer on my 205, but I don't feel like I'm getting a huge benefit over the other systems. My belt tip demo video shows how slow this setup can sew.

If you want a needle positioning system, you'll have to go with the newer style digital controllers (beware, the NPS on the 110V Enduro systems does NOT work properly due to design flaws). Alas, I actually disconnected my needle positioning system on my 205 because I didn't like using it.

The "best" system in terms of low-end torque and control is probably a 220V 3-Phase vector motor with variable frequency controller and fancy speed control pedal. These systems have full torque at 0 RPM, super precise and smooth pedal input, and don't need a speed reducer, but they're expensive ($600+), heavy (60lbs+), and simply not available as a plug-it-in-and-go system you can just buy. I'm working on just such a setup, but it's not done yet (still saving up for that $400 motor)

Edited December 14, 2015 by Uwe

[llucas]

Thanks, Uwe, for good info. The FESM550 style 550Watt motor with a 3:1 speed reducer you mention looks to be the same as the 550 watt servo and reducer that Weaver, et al, carry, albeit under a different name and different part numbers. Are they actually the same in quality? I have read everything I can on this forum and it appears to me that most of the 550 watt servo motors from the different vendors are identical, at least in appearance and specs. Do they come from the same factory in China/Taiwan distributed through various suppliers? I don't know, but visually they are identical and the specs are identical. But are they equally reliable? I am still too new to the game to want/need a needle positioning system. I will be happy with a servo that will deliver power and torque without stalling in 1/4" leather at a slow stitch speed. My needs are fairly simple at this point. And my budget is fairly simple as well, lol. Thus my interest in what has worked in the real world of others using the Adler. Thanks again.

[Uwe]

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes regarding chinese factories and brand labels - I certainly don't. Vendors are loathe to discuss sourcing details for various reasons. Insiders who talk, disappear (kidding, I hope!)

Buying a motor on Ebay will carry more risk than from a vendor who participates here. They don't want a bunch of their motors coming back from disappointed customers, because we'd surely gripe about it here. Get the motor from LW banner vendor that answers your call and offers a good warranty. If it survives the first few months, it'll probably last a lifetime.

Having said all that, I freely admit I've bought all my motors either on Ebay or from Universalsewing.com One of my Enduro motors died suddenly with a rather loud bang and a puff of smoke. Enduro promptly sent me new control board without hassle after a call to UniversalSewing.

[llucas]

. . . I currently have an Enduro motor (220V , 1000 Watt) with a tweaked optical speed sensor and a homemade 3:1 speed reducer on my 205, but I don't feel like I'm getting a huge benefit over the other systems. My belt tip demo video shows how slow this setup can sew . . .

Uwe, I have removed the Enduro line from consideration due to your comments and that of others. Three phase is also not practical for me. Many thanks for your feedback and suggestions.

Has anyone used the 550 watt servo and reducer from Weaver?

Edited December 14, 2015 by llucas

[dikman]

The Weaver motor appears to be an FESM550-type. From my observations, most of the Chinese servos have similar specs and the main differences appear to be in the housing/mounting system used. One thing I found is that my needle positioner won't work with my Chinese digital servo, if I fit a speed reducer as well. No big deal as I simply removed the positioner (I'd rather have the reducer).

As you're new to this, Uwe makes great sense when he says to stick with a (known) local vendor as it should give you peace-of-mind with your purchase.

[llucas]

Uwe gives great advice, which I take on board. I just set up a wholesale account with Weaver, but as I am new to sewing with a machine and on a limited income, naturally I want to find the best bang for the buck and the best reliability. I am not willing to take a chance on the servos sold on eBay and would rather give my business to someone here in the States and/or on this forum even if their products are from the same Chinese/Taiwan manufacturer. Great help available here and I appreciate all the input and advice. A needle positioner is not important to me at this point, only reliability, slow speed, and a non-stalling system with good power and torque. Thanks again for all the advice.

Edited December 14, 2015 by llucas

[shoepatcher]

llucas,

I would call Bob Kovar at Toledo and get one of the servos that he sells with is 4500 Cowboy. That of course is a clone of the Juki 441 but in the same class as the

205-370 and it works.

glenn

[llucas]

llucas,

I would call Bob Kovar at Toledo and get one of the servos that he sells with is 4500 Cowboy. That of course is a clone of the Juki 441 but in the same class as the

205-370 and it works.

glenn

Thanks, Glenn. I actually spoke to him last week about his servo. Seems like a good guy. I am of course interested in the practical experience of guys like you on this forum and whether or not there is a particular servo I should buy (or avoid).

Edited December 16, 2015 by llucas

[shoepatcher]

llucas,

Believe me, Bob has the servo that will work on the 205. it may be a little more money that some other ones, but it works and is proven and that is what counts. He has one I believe that has a reduction gear in it that may work without a speed reducer. Check with him for sure.

glenn

[CowboyBob]

The gear reducer servo is no longer being made & yes they were more $$ than the FS-550 we now sell,so all we have is the FS-550 which will need a speed reducer($135.00) to run the 205 @ a slow enough speed & have enough power.

[llucas]

Bob, I appreciate the additional information. Thanks for sharing it here. Hopefully it is helpful to others -- I know it is helpful to me.

[llucas]

When I get through the expenses of Christmas (lots of grandkids theses days), I will place a few orders based on info given on this forum. Thanks to all who helped.

Uwe, still looking forward to your video demonstrating timing the 205-370 -- and any other video you do on the Adler 205-370.

[Anvas]

Servo motors are nice but can't substitute a skilled foot on a clutch motor's pedal. Even without any reducer pulley you can go stitch by stitch. It simply takes some decades and some hundred thousand miles of thread. And as my mentor said to me once when I was complaining on the motor's speed : "Learn how to sew first"

[dikman]

It simply takes some decades

Unfortunately, some of us don't have that sort of timeframe available to us anymore......... .

[SARK9]

<satire>In spite of the ardent passion some feel for the "clutch motor", it will never, ever replace the tried-and-true *line shaft* for reliably powering the machines of the true artisan. Who would forego the reassuring whisper of the master smith's stout waterwheel, and the regular slap-slap-slap of the overhead leather belts? The "clutch" itself is a dodge created for the lightly practised worker, as real journeymen have no need of such trivialities; these clutches are for people who STOP sewing! We can only feel a certain remorse for those lacking in the skills needed to efficiently organize their workday, who with red-faced shame, find they NEED a clutch. The wise practitioner will realize that these buzzing, diabolical new devices, with their overly indulgent "clutch", can never be made to last as long as true river power, and we must look askance at the fainting dilettantes who lobby for their substitution.</satire>

-DC

Edited December 28, 2015 by SARK9

[Wizcrafts]

<satire>

Snip

</satire>

-DC

Boy, I couldn't live like that!

[SARK9]

I am still a mere white belt in iconoclast-fu, but gratified to see a score called out.

The send-up of the 19th century's darling clutch motor (and its cadre of extremist feathering savants) is meant to be humorous when seen from a particular perspective..... that of the more general newish sewing population, who, finding their balky/grabby temperamental speed demon to be absolutely hopeless for detailed work, extinguish all charitable thinking on the subject. This, in turn, may lead to an amplified perception of insufferable smugness when confronting those who prominently wear the feathering-campaign-award-ribbons a bit too proudly in public. Sorry.

Yes, we all have at least one clutch motor. I have several piled up on a dusty pallet. If you are not a sailmaker or such, the sole reason I can see to *prefer* one in a non-production/industrial setting is: You already have it. Woot.

I suppose, in retrospect, its a good thing I didn't publish a CARTOON with a likeness of one.

-DC

[Uwe]

I feel a little guilty and elitist that I'm actually getting your humor and admire your eloquent prose, DC.

[dikman]

He does indeed have an eloquent turn-of-phrase, and it made me chuckle a little. And yes, I have three clutch motors (including a very old Singer) kicking around. One of them will be used on one of my Singers, albeit with a rather large speed reducer, as I want to see if I too can develop an "educated foot"! (Ever the glutton for punishment, it would seem).

[SARK9]

I have had two clutch motors that I came pretty close to leaving installed, since I was THAT CLOSE to really having useful control of the start/stop/velocity. One was almost new, the other was an antique external clutch model.

There is much that is hidden!

I still found my pea-brain is too easily unbalanced by the constant droning noise they all make, and the silence of my brushless servo motors is more conducive to a relaxing immersion in the creative. Oh, and my sewing area is on the second floor, and the damned clutch motors are HEAVY!

-DC

[jimi]

You are all missing the obvious!! If you want no noise and total control then get back to treadle power! then you will hear the needle cut the leather each time.

[llucas]

Thankfully, we have options that suit our preferences, goals and skill levels. If one's use of older technology makes them feel like Obi-Wan Kenobi using the force to bend the machine to their will, good for them. Glad they take satisfaction in that and feel good about their skills. For those of us who are new to machine stitching and not interested in becoming a Jedi knight of feathering a clutch motor, we are very glad easier (better?) options are there to help us.

[SARK9]

Yeah, treadle is something I'd like to check out more seriously. I keep waiting to find an old 31-15 treadle powerstand I can "upgrade" on CL for giveaway prices....around here, even the very occasional rusted-out Singer 29-4 is assumed to be made of solid silver or something, to the extent that I just ordered a new Consew 29B out of sheer frustration.

-DC