Clones And Originals

[PineyWoodsRooter]

Has anyone written (or seen) a history of sewing machine clones and which original they belong to?

Thanks, PWR

[houndsnmules]

I believe Singer has the most copied designs

[Uwe]

I've not seen one and I'm afraid it would be like Game of Thrones with a bunch of characters claiming to be the true kings and having the place run wild with bastard children.

There are just a few seemingly clear "Luke, I am your father" examples with prominent originals like Juki TSC-441 and Durkopp Adler 205 that have sired and bunch of undisputed offspring. The Juki TSC-441 itself apparently was an answer to the Adler 205. Another popular class of machines Singer 111/Consew 225/ Juki 562/etc. and other variants, I have no clue which came first.

I read some story about a prolonged, nasty patent battle in court over who invented the "first" sewing machine. This was around the time of the American Civil War. I was convoluted and confusing, and apparently it only got worse from there.

Part of the problem is the 150ish years of history, mixed with murky international patent laws, combined with two world wars and dismantled factories and a decades-long orgy of corporate mergers and acquisitions.

It would be easier to write a definitive history of dog breeds. All we know for sure that ten thousand years ago there were only wolves. What exact lineage led to pugs? Who knows!

Edited January 6, 2016 by Uwe

[Uwe]

I believe Singer has the most copied designs

So that seemingly simple statement can be interpreted two totally opposing ways. Did Singer have originals that were copied the most BY others, or were Singer machines mostly copied FROM others? It seems that Singer has a popular reputation of being an "original." But I've also heard people comment that SInger hardly invented anything original at all, but mostly copied and borrowed from others to build their empire. I don't know which version is closer to the truth, actually.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Uwe

[houndsnmules]

I just thought of Singer 111,144,733,136,29 I believe most of them are still being made, with minor changes My statement was just a thought not fact

[TinkerTailor]

[Budd]

111/211singer--> 255/225 consew , singer 45k/17-16-->adler105 adler 48-7 / 10 sew-on sew-forth

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I've not seen one and I'm afraid it would be like Game of Thrones with a bunch of characters claiming to be the true kings and having the place run wild with bastard children.

Game of Thrones and sewing machines both in the same sentence. Who knew? Nice example as well!

[Hockeymender]

+1

[Darren Brosowski]

This is a very, very complex subject and would take a huge amount of research. Unfortunately in many cases the information no longer exists.

A good example is the Singer 15 domestic machine where Japanese machines are usually described as a clone the 15 BUT while they are very similar on the outside to the Singer and many internal parts are the same the Japanese took the best of European designs and then added their own features to come up with machines better than what Singer ever built.

The Seiko TE is not a clone of the Singer 17 as Seiko built this for Singer in the 1960's. When Singer went belly up the only thing that changed was the badge.

There are hundreds of examples and every one is different!!!

[LumpenDoodle2]

There are several very good and informative websites covering the history of the sewing maching (including ISMACS), and Game of Thrones sums it up perfectly.

I think one of the reasons Singer is seen as the 'wellspring' is that they perfected the mass production earlier, and produced a reliable, and affordable machine that you could buy on 'tick'. Ok, it would still cost you at least 6 months wages, but less than a number of other machines out there.

Singer was also more willing to produce specialist industrial machine for the trade. There is an online vid of the Singer sewing machine collection held in Glasgow. Some real drool inducing machines there, and compared with other manufacturers machines, the parts are almost fully interchangable, but what machine came first.........

[Darren Brosowski]

That is a common and easily understood misconception.

Singer was well behind most manufacturers when it came to production as they did not use the "arsenal" system where parts where interchangeable. Every machine was hand fitted, disassembled, body painted and then had the fitted parts put back into the body. Most of their opposition was using "Go/No Go" gauges so that they could fit any part to any body.

Where Singer creamed the opposition was in marketing and they pretty much invented Hire Purchase to sell their machines.

They had a brilliant Engineer by the name of Phillip Diehl who was the man behind the IF - later known as the Model 15 - who had to fight the board of directors to introduce modern practices. If they had not followed his advice they would never have been able to manufacture machines in the volumes required.

A bit more about him here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Diehl_%28inventor%29

"I think one of the reasons Singer is seen as the 'wellspring' is that they perfected the mass production earlier, and produced a reliable, and affordable machine that you could buy on 'tick'. Ok, it would still cost you at least 6 months wages, but less than a number of other machines out there."

[Darren Brosowski]

http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/great-diehl-of-invention.html

[LumpenDoodle2]

There again, if Wikipedia is to be beleived, Singer still done good on the mass production side. ;-()

"From its opening in 1884 until 1943 the Kilbowie factory produced approximately 36,000,000 sewing machines. Singer was the world leader and sold more machines than all the other makers added together. In 1913 the factory shipped 1.3 million machines. "

I thought it was only 16,000,000 machines, I must do another google to check. :-()

[Budd]

http://www.sewalot.com/singer_through_the_ages.htm

Alex I Askaroff

Alex has spent a lifetime in the sewing industry and is considered one of the foremost experts of pioneering machines and their inventors. He has written extensively for trade magazines, radio, television, books and publications worldwide.

Over the last few decades Alex has been painstakingly building this website to encourage enthusiasts around around the Globe. maybe dis guy could help or he might steal the idea for his next book ...be cryptic

[jimi]

http://movingimage.nls.uk/film/1592

not sure but i think they were assembled painted??

[LumpenDoodle2]

http://www.sewalot.com/singer_through_the_ages.htm

Alex I Askaroff

Alex has spent a lifetime in the sewing industry and is considered one of the foremost experts of pioneering machines and their inventors. He has written extensively for trade magazines, radio, television, books and publications worldwide.

Over the last few decades Alex has been painstakingly building this website to encourage enthusiasts around around the Globe. maybe dis guy could help or he might steal the idea for his next book ...be cryptic

Yes, his site is a fascinating read, and a store of really helpful info for the lineage of vintage machines.

His work's really appreciated by us sewing machine nuts.

[Darren Brosowski]

A lot changed over that 60 years. In some years Kilbowie made nearly a million machines

1910 was 1,079,624 serial numbers

Obviously they did not make that many every year and it was about the factory capacity.

There again, if Wikipedia is to be beleived, Singer still done good on the mass production side. ;-()

"From its opening in 1884 until 1943 the Kilbowie factory produced approximately 36,000,000 sewing machines. Singer was the world leader and sold more machines than all the other makers added together. In 1913 the factory shipped 1.3 million machines. "

I thought it was only 16,000,000 machines, I must do another google to check. :-()

[Constabulary]

Seems they have processed a lot of cast iron. I wonder where all that cast iron is nowadays? I think there are some kind machine hoarders out there and a lot is concentrated on Ebay Germany. Ebay is probably the larges cast iron source in da world. When you melt down all the existing vintage cast iron machines and the world price for iron will drop dramatically .

[LumpenDoodle2]

I do know someone who had an elderly neighbour who had been a Singer engineer. When he died, they removed 600+ sewing machines from his basement. I have been led ti believe that Glasgow Council have them in storage.

[Darren Brosowski]

In the 50's, 60's and 70's Singer dealers were encouraged to take trades of old machines. Unfortunately the instruction was to smash them up!

A few years back I heard of over 100 machines - mostly singers - from a closed down factory that were supposedly in storage in another old building. I raced down there that day but they had been scrapped a few months before. Most were boring straight sewers but there were quite a few Conelli and Singer 114 free motion embroidery machines that would have been quite valuable.

Seems they have processed a lot of cast iron. I wonder where all that cast iron is nowadays? I think there are some kind machine hoarders out there and a lot is concentrated on Ebay Germany. Ebay is probably the larges cast iron source in da world. When you melt down all the existing vintage cast iron machines and the world price for iron will drop dramatically .

[Kohlrausch]

Seems they have processed a lot of cast iron. I wonder where all that cast iron is nowadays? I think there are some kind machine hoarders out there and a lot is concentrated on Ebay Germany. Ebay is probably the larges cast iron source in da world. When you melt down all the existing vintage cast iron machines and the world price for iron will drop dramatically .

Well, I would admit to about 20 sewing machines, but I have heard, there also are one or two in the London-Camden-Market-area.

All of Kilbowie's production at 20 kg/machine would accumulate to about 0,5 percent of one years raw steel production nowadays. At about 120 Euro/ton Kilbowie's entire production would fetch roughly 86,000,000 Euros.

I guess, it's worth more if kept alive ;-)

Greets

Ralf C.

[Constabulary]

well, I meant it as a joke.

[TinkerTailor]

Who built what and when is a good story but would be an incomplete story without info on who patented what, and who stole/borrowed/bought/rented such patents, as well as the stories of who forgot to patent things they should have.

Everybody was paying everyone to use patents. Others modified the item just enough to get out of the patent scope.

[jimi]

Sorry, iam off on another subject, but did you see how long they took making those needles!! and it does look like they fitted the machines after they were painted Darren?? at least thats what the film shows?