Leather Thickness For Pancake Style Holsters

[tardis86]

What thickness leather does everyone use for pancake style holsters? I plan to buy some soon and I want to get the right stuff.

I figure I will probably only be making pancake style at first, iwb and owb

thanks

[Red Cent]

I would guess most use 8-9 ounce for the pancake.

[glockanator]

I use 6-7 oz leather

[Troy I]

I use 9/10 oz leather.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Troy I

[katsass]

Well, I use two layers of 4/5oz shoulder bonded together on their flesh sides. I make two of these and then treat each as a single piece of 8/10 oz. This works out well in molding and produces a smoothly lined holster to boot. Mike

[JLSleather]

7/8 more often than not.

[chiefjason]

I use 8-9 oz. The stiffer sections near the spine I use for backs and cut the front out a little higher where the leather is a bit less stiff. Well, most of the time.

[Pounder]

I use 3/4 oz. glued together, flesh side out. Works good for me and is simple to mold. And a big shout out to JLS Leather for patterns.

[stu925]

I use either 8/9 or 9/10oz leather for just about everything I make. I usually buy when Tandy has it on sale and buy a couple of double shoulders. I find it easier for me to only stock one weight of leather since I am so limited on space. If I need lighter stuff for a project I order it but for most of the stuff I make the heavier stuff is perfect.

Stu

[YinTx]

JLS,

I'm a little confused. I think your downloadable instructions say

"For most holsters, we like a total of about 8 or 9 ounce leather thickness. Our patterns state the weight of leather used for the model shown. This is the total thickness desired, and can be single-ply piece that thick, or some combination of thinner pieces adding up to that thickness..."

Your comment says 7 or 8 oz, so is that total, or each ply? I ask only because I am contemplating a holster, and when I went to a gun show this past weekend, I picked up a number of them. The 7 oz total weight holsters seemed pretty flimsy to me, like they might not hold the gun for very long or very effectively. I can understand not wanting to haul around a thick holster IWB all day, and trying to avoid printing, but it still seemed inadequate. Photos I see on this site of holsters I've admired appear significantly thicker, like 8 oz per ply. I think I only saw one remotely close to that, and the gentleman was asking $140 for it, vs. the $65 for the others. Build quality warranted his price point, especially sitting on a table next to the other vendor's er... stuff.

I also must say the attention to details on even the most modest of holsters I have seen on this site blow away everything I saw for sale there. Including some NOS Bianchi holsters still in the package - I was frankly disappointed, considering the name and reputation, I had expected something on an entirely different level.

Thanks also for providing the templates gratis. I have other templates, but its nice to have choices! and instructions.

YinTx

[Dwight]

Well, I use two layers of 4/5oz shoulder bonded together on their flesh sides. I make two of these and then treat each as a single piece of 8/10 oz. This works out well in molding and produces a smoothly lined holster to boot. Mike

Tardis, . . . make one out of a single layer of 8/9 or 9/10, . . .

THEN, . . . make one like this.

When I first started conversing with Mike some years back, . . . I was a bit leary of this method of making pancakes.

I am no longer leary, . . . in fact, . . . I'm convinced. This is the only way I will make a pancake to sell, . . . especially if it is an OWB. Once this baby is cut, sewn, molded, dyed, and finished, . . . you have a HOLSTER, . . . now.

I make others that are only one layer, . . . but never a pancake.

And if you use the search function, . . . look up posts by him, . . . there are a number of photos out there to let you see his work.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited March 3, 2016 by Dwight

[katsass]

Not to hijack the post but, Dwight, your statements make an old man blush. Thank you for the kind comments. mike

[Dwight]

Just giving credit where credit is due, . . . Mike.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JLSleather]

JLS,

"For most holsters, we like a total of about 8 or 9 ounce leather thickness. Our patterns state the weight of leather used for the model shown. This is the total thickness desired, and can be single-ply piece that thick, or some combination of thinner pieces adding up to that thickness..."

Your comment says 7 or 8 oz, so is that total, or each ply?

Maybe I should look into changing that? As a rule, I really like 7/8 0z these days. Not to say I don't use 8/9, because I DO.. Bu not on every thing every time, which is why each pattern includes a note about the weight of leather used. Most mid-size semi-autos are 7/8 these days. Large OWB holsters are sometimes heavier, and pocket holsters are generally lighter.

the gentleman was asking $140 for it, vs. the $65 for the others. Build quality warranted his price point, especially sitting on a table next to the other vendor's er... stuff.

If you're talking about a plain, not-tooled holster, I would not personally pay ANYONE $140 for a leather holster. Including me. NOBODY is adding THAT kind of differentiation into a holster that it warrants that kind of money. I understand that the use of exotic leathers adds significantly to the cost, and is legitimate.

On the other hand, the use of 'exotics' without other considerations is pointless.

Really have to consider the holster as a whole unit. One guy will obsess about meticulously even stitching, another will go on about mirror finish on the edges, etc. One of my own "peeves", wrinkles. I'm not talking about natural markings within the leather. If you search, you may find posts by fgabez (or something like that) where he has incorporated fat wrinkles into the design of his holsters BEAUTIFULLY. I'm talking about wrinkles caused by grain distortion from (what they call) forming the holster. Apparently, these days it''s acceptable as long as they are on the back side@#$!@# This is ridiculous, easily avoided, and screams laziness. Flip a leather holster over -- if there are "forming" wrinkles on the back (often at the stitch seams) I have to wonder what else they couldn't be bothered with.

But in the end, does the holster do what it is intended for, in a way which is comfortable and attractive?

I also must say the attention to details on even the most modest of holsters I have seen on this site blow away everything I saw for sale there. Including some NOS Bianchi holsters still in the package - I was frankly disappointed, considering the name and reputation, I had expected something on an entirely different level.

You said a mouthful. Keep in mind (always) that there are "leather guys" and there are "marketing guys". Some people have a natural talent for telling stories. Some understand leather quite well. But they are not always the same person. The "glass half full" and the "glass half empty" are the SAME glass.

I'm not generally influenced by someone "blowing smoke". This hasn't always made me the most popular kid, it's true, but I simply do not sit around with people patting each other on the back if it isn't warranted. If you make a good product, I'll say that. If not, I'll say that too. In short, I don't 'friend" people so they will "friend" me back. To those people with a "name", I say - show me.

To use your own example, how many of those bianchi holsters were made by bianchi? And if they were't made by Bianchi, then the name on the package is just marketing "poo".

Thanks also for providing the templates gratis. I have other templates, but its nice to have choices! and instructions.

Welcome. The whole POINT of these patterns is to see people jump in. Most will gain something from using them, but I assume (hope) that this use aids a guy in determining what he likes and what he doesn't, and then making his OWN style. I've persoanlly made each of those, and I know they WILL work. But even better is a guy who uses one, and thinks 'I like that, except if it was me I would ..."

YinTx

For some of the reasons you mention, I'm personally getting OUT of making holsters. For quite a while, I was still in leather but not making holsters. And a while back, my friend Robert Locke (mecopocketholsters.com) got me interested in them again. Since Robert's no longer with us, much of the point is gone.

I will, however, continue to make and distribute patterns for leather holsters. To the extent that it's reasonable, they will be offered free of charge. Meanwhile, I have some more to upload to the site -- so keep checking over there. I'm not quitting, I'm expanding.

And one last thought.... on "price perception". Some would say that the more expensive of two items "must" be better. Without going all day about that, it should be obvious to anyone over age 15 that this is just 'blowing smoke'. The Jeff 'rules' for price comparison:

• If you're advertising "hand made", then it needs to be BETTER than the mass produced. If it's not better, then WHY would anyone pay more? This is teh POINT of handmade... those little defects and details which get overlooked in mass-production should be caught in a handmade item.
• A higher price on the same item does not make it "worth more".
• Don't tell me how long it took.. I don't care. I'm buying a leather holster and I'm paying for the quality. If it took you twice as long, you don't get paid twice as much.
• Stories about how long you've been doing it are usually meant to distract attention from an honest assessment of the goods. I know people in the same job for 25 years, and they still couldn't do it alone if you had a gun to their head. And I know people with 25 years who could do their job (almost0 in their sleep. And likewise, "new" people -- some are quite talentied, and others not so much. So when you started is irrelevant. That's like trying to sell me a "bianchi" holster not made by bianchi.
• ANd while not a hard and fast "rule" set in stone, often the guy with the most words and videos (youtube is free-for-all) is the one with the least actual leather skills.

I'm recovering from a few days of down' time due to illness, but before long I'll have much of this up on the web site with the patterns.

Edited March 3, 2016 by JLSleather

[Jarhead44706]

Well said Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to educate us newer guys in the art of crafting items. I for one cannot thank you enough for the patterns you have provided and for some of the critiques you have pointed out on some of my works. You have truly been very helpful as well as others on this forum in pointing out areas that need focused on as well as the craft itself. Thanks again....Mike

[JLSleather]

Glad I could help. One other thing maybe about leather thickness. Most holsters - and all of mine - are marked and laid out on the GRAIN side of the leather. Due to that fact, the thickness matters. I'll put the "long version" on the site before long, but for now.. the idea:

Measurements are made in a linear, straight line fashion, and then the leather is wrapped around some type of form.

Ideally, the inside of the holster and the outside of the gun would be theoretically identical. So if you measured the INSIDE of the holster, then leather thickness wouldn't matter. Thicker leather would simply result in a thicker holster, and both would still fit the same firearm.

But measuring the outside of the holster, this outside is then "fixed", and the thicker the leather, the narrower the inside will be (and TIGHTER). To illustrate, think about a holster that fits your gun well. Now, take a 2 or 2.5 oz leather and line the inside of the holster, and try putting your gun in there again (good luck).

One more example? Think PVC pipe.. we've all seen that, right? I don't know 'schedule whatever" when it comes to this, but all pipe is not made with the same wall thickness. End result, if you just get 3" pipe, without considering the wall thickness, it may or may not hold the amount of water you were hoping. 1/8" thicker wall means a pipe which is 1/4" less diameter, and a "straight line" measurement (circumference, for you fancy folks) 3/4" LESS....

SO THEN, why not just give people the inner measurement and let them decide on leather thickness? Because this is the "standard" so many folks around here are accustomed to... ever since Al and Ann's book "How to Make Holsters" (somewhere iin the 50's). That book and it's principles - which include marking the grain side - are still widely used and recommended. Now, since a LOT of the guns around today were not around back then, perhaps we could change the way that's done, but it hasn't happened yet.

Edited March 4, 2016 by JLSleather

[tardis86]

lots of good info guys! i will definitely be trying the two layers glued together thing the next time i buy some leather.

[TrooperChuck]

I make a lot of holsters at my shop. When I first opened the shop I made holsters out of a single ply of leather, usually 8 to 9 ounce. The holsters looked nice when they left the shop. One day, though, a customer brought a holster back. He'd been wearing it almost every day for several months. I was surprised how loose and floppy the leather had become after months of daily use. The fibers in the single ply of leather had stretched and loosened to the point that the customer was having trouble reholstering his gun. I started researching ways to combat this problem. I looked at adding "eyebrows" and sewing on sections of stiffener leather. While these things have worked for many holster makers, my personal preferences didn't go in that direction.

I recently took a holster making class from Chris "Slickbald" Andre, who talked quite a bit about the benefits of using two plies of leather for all holsters. For most normal jobs he recommended two layers of 4/5 ounce leather. Two plies of 4/5 oz glued flesh to flesh gives you a final thickness of about 9 ounces.

Since taking that class I've been using two plies of leather for all my holsters and have been very satisfied with the results. The holsters are stiffer and seem to retain their shape better. The only down side I've experienced with using two plies is that wet molding is just a little bit more difficult. You can mold the two layers tight enough to provide a good amount of "retention," but the shaping of the leather doesn't transfer well to the outer layer. I haven't been able to reproduce the "molded to every line and contour of the gun" appearance that is so popular nowadays. This hasn't been a big problem because most of my customers are more concerned about holster performance and practicality rather than appearance.

So, I guess this has been a long-winded way of agreeing with some of the other folks who have already said they use two layers of leather to make their holsters. Give it a try. I think you'll like the results.

[UncleCedar]

I messed around and used 2 pieces of 8/9 oz glued and sewn together for the back since my first holster with 1 ply of 8/9 was considered to floppy by a fella I loaned it out to for testing. The outer piece is 8/9 as well. Thinking now this all may be too rigid but Ill let the fella decide. Thanks for all the insight on this guys.

Tom R. Lamb