Barge Or Weldwood Contact Cement?

[llucas]

I have always used Weldwood Contact Cement for my holsters and belts. But on the last belt I came across an edge that had separated a little -- even though I typically use two coats before joining the two straps. I have read a number of places where holster and belt makers swear by Barge Cement. Is it better than Weldwood, or is this a tomato/tomatoe kind of thing?

[Colt W Knight]

Weldwood works so well, I see no reason to pay for anything more expense. Plus, I can go to any hardware store and even walmart to buy Weldwood.

I would be willing to bet, your separation was caused by an error in applying/pressing the leather together or just some loose fibers in the leather.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[llucas]

Weldwood works so well, I see no reason to pay for anything more expense. Plus, I can go to any hardware store and even walmart to buy Weldwood.

I would be willing to bet, your separation was caused by an error in applying/pressing the leather together or just some loose fibers in the leather.

No, on these expensive belts I am overly cautious because I do not want customer dissatisfaction. The leather I selected was firm as opposed to soft. Two coats of Weldwood (my standard practice), dried to tacky at 72 degrees and twenty minutes and joined. I use a j-roller to bond the leather straps and this is rolled at 45 degrees on the edges -- not a mallet or weights. In short, I am somewhat obsessive-compulsive about these things because I don't want a glue line on my edges, lol. The Weldwood failed in a few places. First time it has happened, but it did. If Barge is better, I will switch. I am a pragmatist in that regard. A few extra bucks on Barge doesn't bother me, if it is indeed better. But is it?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

While I don't make holsters, I do use a lot of contact cement. I started out using Barges years ago and still swear by it for something you don't ever want to come apart. There were a couple times I was out of Barges and bought some Weldwood. IMO it doesn't hold a candle to the Barges. I know there are some folks who will disagree with me, and that's fine. I've used Master's cement, and while it was just ok, I still went back to Barges. With proper surface prep and correct application and use, you better get your pieces set right the first time, because they aren't coming apart to re-set. I buy it in gallon cans, and honestly I can't even tell you what it costs me. The cost is not important if the alternative is a failure in my work. It's the best by far IMO.

[llucas]

I am tossing the can of Weldwood that separated. I will pick up a small can of Barge and give it a try -- unless I get a dozen posts telling me it is junk, lol. Thanks.

Edited February 14, 2016 by llucas

[Dwight]

I am tossing the can of Weldwood that separated. I will pick up a small can of Barge and give it a try -- unless I get a dozen posts telling me it is junk, lol. Thanks.

I am not going to be one of those dozen posts, . . . but I would encourage you not to give up on the weldwood.

I personally have never had your experience, . . . BUT, . . . we don't do things alike either.

My belts, . . . like yours, . . . get a coat on each piece of leather, . . . but I force dry mine, . . . with a heat gun, . . . and they are not tacky, . . . they are DRY. You can take a cotton ball all the way from one end to the other, . . . you will not lose one fiber of cotton to a tacky place when I am getting ready to put my belt pieces together, . . . and owing to the heat gun, . . . they will be slightly warm.

I put them together, . . . and my marble rolling pin comes out, . . . after I have first "set" them together with the palms of my hands.

My opinion, . . . you got some foreign something or other in that weldwood, . . . and the same thing will happen again, . . . regardless of the brand, . . . if the new stuff is equally contaminated.

In almost 50 years of using contact cement, . . . I did get one bad can once, . . . a couple years back, . . . worked good at first, . . . then seemingly overnight it got all thick and stringy, . . . totally unuseable, . . . I pitched it and did not look back.

I've never used Barges because I like weldwood, . . . understand it, . . . am familiar with it, . . . and am not with Barges.

BUT, . . . best wishes on whatever decision you make.

May God bless,

Dwight

[llucas]

I am not going to be one of those dozen posts, . . . but I would encourage you not to give up on the weldwood.

I personally have never had your experience, . . . BUT, . . . we don't do things alike either.

My belts, . . . like yours, . . . get a coat on each piece of leather, . . . but I force dry mine, . . . with a heat gun, . . . and they are not tacky, . . . they are DRY. You can take a cotton ball all the way from one end to the other, . . . you will not lose one fiber of cotton to a tacky place when I am getting ready to put my belt pieces together, . . . and owing to the heat gun, . . . they will be slightly warm.

I put them together, . . . and my marble rolling pin comes out, . . . after I have first "set" them together with the palms of my hands.

My opinion, . . . you got some foreign something or other in that weldwood, . . . and the same thing will happen again, . . . regardless of the brand, . . . if the new stuff is equally contaminated.

In almost 50 years of using contact cement, . . . I did get one bad can once, . . . a couple years back, . . . worked good at first, . . . then seemingly overnight it got all thick and stringy, . . . totally unuseable, . . . I pitched it and did not look back.

I've never used Barges because I like weldwood, . . . understand it, . . . am familiar with it, . . . and am not with Barges.

BUT, . . . best wishes on whatever decision you make.

May God bless,

Dwight

I appreciate the comment, but no, there was no foreign matter or contamination. It did not get thick or stringy, it looked normal, but it failed. I have used Weldwood for a long time and this is the first time I have had a problem. I put two coats on each piece and let it dry until tacky between each coat. It simply failed. It could be the luck of the draw or the odd can of cement that does not prove the rule. But it failed. Because it failed it made me think of the comments about the superiority of Barge by other leather working pros. Barge users, what say you?

[Red Cent]

I guess Dwight beat me to it again.

Buy a heat gun. Coat each piece liberally but evenly. I use a paint scraper for large pieces to spread the glue. I applyhigh setting of heat slowly watching the glue just start to rise as I move on. After mating the pieces I use a small roller or a rolling pin. I have learned that if the backside of the leather has the fuzzies, go to the belt sander and remove.

Weldwood Gel.

[llucas]

Back in the day before I finished post-grad studies and went on to other things I was a cabinetmaker. We used Weldwood every day to laminate countertops and apply expensive veneers to cabinet substrates. Occasionally we used heatguns to speed the process but most of the time it was not necessary -- especially on days where the Texas summers made it necessary to apply the glue quickly so it would not tack up before we were ready. I have used it for years and I never had it fail until this particular belt. It did not fail because of improper application, or bonding the leather before the glue was ready to adhere. The leather was of good quality and the backs were not fuzzy or less than smooth. I suspect Dwight is correct and this particular can of Weldwood was contaminated from the factory. Or, there was sloppy quality control on a batch. Has anyone had this experience with Weldwood -- or with Barge?

By the way, in this discussion of technique using contact cement I would strongly recommend the j-roller that is normally used to bond laminate to substrate in countertop construction. The medium to hard rubber roller on a (sometimes curved) longish handle applies a lot of pressure without marring the leather. Much better than the metal leather roller; dead blow hammers, etc.

Edited February 15, 2016 by llucas

[George B]

Been using Barge's cement since the day I started building saddles. Used Weldwood a couple of times when I ran out of Barge's, it did the job with 2-3 coats that the Barge's did with one. Since I do holsters now, time is important, and I have found the Barge's to take less time without one separation over the years.

George

[llucas]

Been using Barge's cement since the day I started building saddles. Used Weldwood a couple of times when I ran out of Barge's, it did the job with 2-3 coats that the Barge's did with one. Since I do holsters now, time is important, and I have found the Barge's to take less time without one separation over the years.

George

Thanks, George. That is the kind of information I am fishing for.

In re-reading the prior comments, George's comment made me realize I may not have been clear when I said I used "two coats" of Weldwood. One coat on both pieces; dry; second coat on each piece; dry; join the pieces. Two coats on each piece, not a total of two from a single coat on each piece. Even with two complete coats on each piece the Weldwood failed.

[BadDaditood]

I've been using Weldwood for years without a problem, but i bought a squeeze tube of Barge's *new formula* cement (no toluene).

Is anyone using this *new formula*?

Is it as good as the original? or does my personal adage apply-- "If it's not bad for you, it's probably not any good"