Another 29-4 Problem Post

[GreenwoodBowcraft]

1 minute ago, northmount said:

Top tension pulls the knots up, bottom tension pulls the knots down.  Too much bottom tension or not enough top tension will leave the bottom thread laying on the bottom, not being pulled up into the leather.  Doesn't matter what type of lockstitch sewing machine you are using.  They work on the same principles.  The two tensions have to be balanced against each other.  There should be some tension on the shuttle thread, but easy to pull, and smooth.  I would first increase the top tension some more, unless it is difficult to pull the top thread through the tension assembly.

Tom

Thanks! I tried last night to increase it some, but the top thread was breaking. I suspect that has more to do with how the top thread is held. I purchased one of the larger spools and I can tell the "mount" has been rigged, it's a block of wood with a post. There is more tension generated from trying to spin the spool than the tension discs so I've been running out some slack on that end before starting. I think I may try to rewind it on a smaller spool or come up with a more elegant solution. 

[Northmount]

Are you using a spool or a cone of thread.  Cones are usually setup to pull the thread vertically off the top of the cone, not having to turn the cone.  ANd yes, if a spool adds more resistance, it increases the top tension.  Tension needs to be consistent. 

Sounds like you need to reduce the bottom tension.  Go slow, little adjustments each time.

Tom

 

[GreenwoodBowcraft]

That makes much more sense. I did purchase the cone. I'll try winding down to a spool, or maybe a rig to pull from the top of the cone that wont offer any additional tension. 

[shoepatcher]

One thing I would look at is the small , paddle shaped tension spring that is a the lower part of the needle bar.  This serves the purpose of keep a constant tension on the needle thread from the take up lever to the needle.  A lot of times this spring is either broke or has a grove worn in it by the thread.  the only way to access the spring is by pulling the needle bar.  To do so, you must completely remove the needle clamp and then drive out the tapered pin that connect s the needle bar to the drive piston.  The pin is driven out from back to front.

The tangle in the bobbin case is normally caused either by the hook not picking up the needle thread or  the needle thread not clearing the hook as it goes around the hook. 

As to the foot, I have never seen one like this in 40 years of working on Singer shoe patchers.  I think this one was custom made.  Is there any part # on it?..  I would purchase a generic foot #82007 and try that  as well.  Hope that helps. 

glenn

[jimi]

Hi There, did you try using the small needle hole on the other end of your needle plate?? because the big hole is way too big and if it is not smooth on the edges it will cut your thread??

Edited April 7, 2016 by jimi

[vonkas]

On 6 April 2016 at 6:44 AM, GreenwoodBowcraft said:

My intention is not to be rude.. I have attempted to be thorough in both my testing and explanation of the problem. Are you able to point me towards instructions you have found helpful in restoring a machine to factory settings? The machine wasn't purchased, it was just a gift. As far as her father was aware it worked perfectly when they stored it. Again, I apologize, I don't intend to be rude I just find that giving direction on how to do something, rather than just saying it's being done wrong is more productive and helpful. 

Additionally, I did in fact use the manual to set up the machine that is widely available online regarding threading, setting the needle, setting the shuttle, loading the bobbin, in addition to the incredibly sparse troubleshooting instructions. "What to do if your top thread gets tangled on the bottom of the work" is not a topic covered there. I also read nearly every thread on this site containing the words 29k and 29-4 and Singer Patcher. I haven't just brought a machine home, sat down, stitched for 4 minutes and come to the forums. I've spent nearly 8 hours troubleshooting, cleaning, and testing not counting the online research.

Assuming that everything is adjusted by the book, then either your needle is the wrong type (right side thread grove instead of left, wrong length or position of scarf or not moved home in clamp due to gunk) or the thread isn't matched to the needle or it;s simply mounted incorrectly. This is of course assuming that all other parts of the machine are the correct ones for the model and machine tolerances are to spec (not worn). Sometimes a spec of rust can introduce enough friction to throw things out. All this information is in the "Factory Adjustment Manual" without which you have only a slim chance to get it right. For example, many machines have adjustable timing, the relation between the needle stroke and the hook position. This can go out of sync if the machine stalls through overload. Usually the correct positions of components are not marked and are observed visually during the adjustment process. Again the manual will tell you how to check and adjust the timing. An experienced sewing machine repair parson can do this without book, as all machines work by similar principles. I would like to help more but I do not have the books for your machine. Just like me with my first machine, you might "cut your teeth" with your Singer. If you get it right you will have learned a great deal and you'll be able to judge the condition when you buy your next machine. So don't give up unless you learn that someone has stuffed your machine up with non factory parts that you cannot replace.

Edited April 7, 2016 by vonkas

[Uwe]

@vonkasCould you please post a PDF version of your factory adjustment manual here so we can all learn from it? Thanks in advance.

[GreenwoodBowcraft]

7 minutes ago, Uwe said:

@vonkasCould you please post a PDF version of your factory adjustment manual here so we can all learn from it? Thanks in advance.

I agree, that would be helpful. The Singer 29-4 manual PDF online I have found has some basic adjustment and troubleshooting.

I do suspect that the timing is the issue. What I'm finding is now consistently happening after increasing the upper tension and setting the spool up to expel thread correctly is that the top loop is not coming off of the shuttle hook. The stitches are breaking at that point on every single cycle. Increasing the top tension any higher results in the top thread breaking. The work is moving (about 6-7 stitches/inch) but I can feel resistance right at the start of the up-stroke of the needle right as the thread breaks on the hook.

[Constabulary]

Is the machine feeding the material meanwhile? I guess your stitch length is set on max. right? You know, sometimes these old patchers are very worn and especially the bell crank lever often is worn of on its tip. If the tip is worn off the machine is not feeding properly or produces only very short stitches. How is the gib of the stitch length adjuster installed? The flattened wedge has to be up.

Please post a full views of the backside.

These patchers are sometimes mystical.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Constabulary

[GreenwoodBowcraft]

22 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Is the machine feeding the material meanwhile? I guess your stitch length is set on max. right? You know, sometimes these old patchers are very worn and especially the bell crank lever often is worn of on its tip. If the tip is worn off the machine is not feeding properly or produces only very short stitches. How is the gib of the stitch length adjuster installed? The flattened wedge has to be up.

Please post a full views of the backside.

These patchers are sometimes mystical.

Thanks Constabulary, I will definitely share some full pictures of the back end this evening. The material is feeding very well. It seems to be set on max-length. I understand 6-7 stitches per inch to be less than ideal, but it would work for my small purposes. 

As a matter of fact, your comment got me to thinking that of all the pictures I've used for comparison, the back is a piece I've not seen. After searching everywhere I found one to compare with my memory of the machine (I'm on lunch at my day-job). 

The little "paddle/lever" thing here that rests on this shoulder that goes up and down on my machine does not rest on that shoulder. It hangs down. It is plenty long enough to make it over that shoulder, but I couldn't reason a way that it could get over the shoulder without removing it, so I assumed it must not go there. This picture shows it how I imagined it would go. I wonder if this part of the struggle I'm having.