URGENT HELP - Which edge paint polishing/buffing/brushing/sanding machine to use??

[johnnywalks]

Dear fellow leatherworkers, 

I have been following this forum for awhile, thank you all for the tips and information. I am about to have my first small order of 50 pieces of cardholder. I have been using edge paint from fenice or Giardini for my edges of leathergoods. Here I always sand the leather edge down first to even out, then apply a thin layer of edge paint. Next I follow up with the electric creaser acquired from Mando, flattening the paint applied and then i sand it down again and repeat this process. I need the final coat to be smooth and well finished like any luxury leathergoods makes out in the market. 

I have look around in search of buying a brushing/polishing machine. Omac, Sieck and Randall Campbell stock the following machines: 

http://www.omacsrl.com/products/finishing/polishing-machines/brushing-machine-sp200/

http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/leather-goods-manufacturing/details/5499/

 http://www.campbell-randall.com/machines/leather-goods-machines/burnishing-machines/model-vsb-burnishing-machine/

 

As these machines come with a hefty price tag, i am thinking of building my own to save cost, however with not much confidence as i am no electrician. I understand so far the motor has to be of the right rpm, horsepower, along with the required finishing wheel (felt, felt with 4 leather, etc). I am thinking either 900rpm or 1400rpm, 1 HP motor.  My questions are:

1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110600633578?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Will this sort of motor work? how can i change the shaft/arbor to the right length and dimensions to fit AP size polishing wheels?? Should i use AP or LF wheels? What is the difference?

 

2) What about variable speed motor? It seems really hard to source one with an inverter and the price tag is pretty high.  Can i use a servo motor for sewing machine and convert it to be an edge finishing machine? Am based in the UK and these sewing machine servo motor seem to be a better price.  The only issue is how i can keep the servo motor spinning as we all know it has to be activated by a foot pedal. 

 

3) Which sort of wheel do i use for the final finish of the edge paint? cloth and 4 sheet of leather wheel, dense cloth wheel, felt wheel?

 

4) Vertical or horizontal mounting? I am thinking vertical and i can build a similar box in wood as those commercial ones mentioned in the links, but my question is the weight load of the motor.. what sort of mounting i should use etc.

 

Any experts, please help!! :((  

 

 

 

 

[eglideride]

Unsolicited reply from a hobbyist: 

> if this is urgent- you don't have time to build a machine prototype that might or might not meet your needs

> The machines you listed have factory warranty, support, spare parts availability etc. 

> the engineering has been done- they work! Proven technology - with many options.

> I would focus on your art, your work.

I like tinkering and experimenting- but I don't have any deadlines/expectations that "I" haven't set..

 

Just my opinion. 

 

[eglideride]

My home made rig- single speed.

Less than $100.00 invested

 

[johnnywalks]

5 minutes ago, eglideride said:

My home made rig- single speed.

Less than $100.00 invested

 

Thanks eglideride. What's the rpm of your motor? Do you use them to polish edge painting final coat and if so the results? It seems to me wood burnisher is for finishing veg tan leather without any edge paint. 

[eglideride]

Good call Johnnywalks!

That is how I have used it so far. I DO have leather wheel and a couple of other untried options (paper and wool wheels - who knows?) for edge paint. I just put this together recently.

Harbor Freight buffer motor- 3400 RPM I believe,  with a cast iron stand mounted on 4 x 4's for noise reduction. Spalted maple burnisher turned by a friend of mine. 

So important question: Johnny Walker Black? Red? you don't mention where you are from...Tennessee? Kentucky...or just a fan? 

[JMWendt]

I took a 1 hp capacitor start motor off an old air compressor in my shed and mounted it on my work bench, wired it to a 120v wall switch also mounted on my bench and then plugged that to the wall socket.  I used a burnisher I got off Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Motor-Burnisher/dp/B00JI645PS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage -- great item, by the way).

The thing is awesome.  3400 rpm is perfect.  I thought about setting it up for variable speed, but with a cap start motor, this was not an option.  The static speed of 3400 rpm is perfect anyway.  Glad I didn't bother.

Total cost-- the cost of the burnisher, around fifty bucks.  The best part is how smoothly the thing runs.  Perfect burnishing every time too.  It's made me realize what crappy work I used to produce.

[Dwight]

Good job JMWendt, . . . mine is along the same lines, . . . I just made my burnisher myself, . . . mounted it to the motor, . . . turned the motor on, . . . then took various files to the piece of wood to get the grooves I wanted, . . . works like a champ.

Part of the lure of leather work to me, . . . it is simply the opportunity to be creative in how one does things, . . . not like a machine shop where dedicated and precisely demanded equipment is necessary.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JMWendt]

2 hours ago, Dwight said:

Good job JMWendt, . . . mine is along the same lines, . . . I just made my burnisher myself, . . . mounted it to the motor, . . . turned the motor on, . . . then took various files to the piece of wood to get the grooves I wanted, . . . works like a champ.

Part of the lure of leather work to me, . . . it is simply the opportunity to be creative in how one does things, . . . not like a machine shop where dedicated and precisely demanded equipment is necessary.

May God bless,

Dwight

I really like that cocobolo.  It's so slick.  I previously used a piece of pine that was hand grooved.  Compared to that, this thing is like butter to sand.  

[johnnywalks]

19 hours ago, eglideride said:

Good call Johnnywalks!

That is how I have used it so far. I DO have leather wheel and a couple of other untried options (paper and wool wheels - who knows?) for edge paint. I just put this together recently.

Harbor Freight buffer motor- 3400 RPM I believe,  with a cast iron stand mounted on 4 x 4's for noise reduction. Spalted maple burnisher turned by a friend of mine. 

So important question: Johnny Walker Black? Red? you don't mention where you are from...Tennessee? Kentucky...or just a fan? 

Thanks mate, this gives me more confidence to build my own and find my feel of the DIY. Am based in United Kingdom actually, use to have Johnnywalker as a client/sponsor years ago hence the name. lolol.  

I read somewhere that to buff acrylic (which we assume has the closest melt properties to edge paint). Measure the 'Surface Feet Per Minute' at around 1400 - 4000. - Take 1/4 of the wheel diameter, then times the rpm of the motor. 

Example: 1/4 of 8" wheel diameter = 2 x 1400rpm = 2800rpm. 

It should be within that range to avoid overworking/melting. Hope to share this knowledge to anyone who is into the math solution.   Looks like i will go with 1400 rpm and give it a shot.

Edited May 9, 2016 by johnnywalks
typo

[johnnywalks]

7 hours ago, JMWendt said:

I took a 1 hp capacitor start motor off an old air compressor in my shed and mounted it on my work bench, wired it to a 120v wall switch also mounted on my bench and then plugged that to the wall socket.  I used a burnisher I got off Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Motor-Burnisher/dp/B00JI645PS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage -- great item, by the way).

The thing is awesome.  3400 rpm is perfect.  I thought about setting it up for variable speed, but with a cap start motor, this was not an option.  The static speed of 3400 rpm is perfect anyway.  Glad I didn't bother.

Total cost-- the cost of the burnisher, around fifty bucks.  The best part is how smoothly the thing runs.  Perfect burnishing every time too.  It's made me realize what crappy work I used to produce.

Thanks JMWent. I was just very afraid the rpm of 3400 will melt the edge paint too easily. I may go with 1400 rpm to slow it down. 

But i am glad to hear that single speed does the trick and made the difference in your work. I guess i have to stick to my guts to go with DIY at 1400rpm and upgrade to a tried and tested manufacturing brand in the near future if need to.  

 

My only worry is that at 1400 rpm i may not be able to burnish with wood for veg tan leather. I guess i'll take it one step at a time. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by johnnywalks

[Mike516]

On 5/9/2016 at 9:46 AM, JMWendt said:

I took a 1 hp capacitor start motor off an old air compressor in my shed and mounted it on my work bench, wired it to a 120v wall switch also mounted on my bench and then plugged that to the wall socket.  I used a burnisher I got off Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Motor-Burnisher/dp/B00JI645PS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage -- great item, by the way).

The thing is awesome.  3400 rpm is perfect.  I thought about setting it up for variable speed, but with a cap start motor, this was not an option.  The static speed of 3400 rpm is perfect anyway.  Glad I didn't bother.

Total cost-- the cost of the burnisher, around fifty bucks.  The best part is how smoothly the thing runs.  Perfect burnishing every time too.  It's made me realize what crappy work I used to produce.

 

On 5/9/2016 at 10:04 AM, Dwight said:

Good job JMWendt, . . . mine is along the same lines, . . . I just made my burnisher myself, . . . mounted it to the motor, . . . turned the motor on, . . . then took various files to the piece of wood to get the grooves I wanted, . . . works like a champ.

Part of the lure of leather work to me, . . . it is simply the opportunity to be creative in how one does things, . . . not like a machine shop where dedicated and precisely demanded equipment is necessary.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

On 5/9/2016 at 0:30 PM, JMWendt said:

I really like that cocobolo.  It's so slick.  I previously used a piece of pine that was hand grooved.  Compared to that, this thing is like butter to sand.  

I have a cocabolo dremmel burnisher that I been using for a couple of years, but it's become a little unwieldy if you have to use it a lot. I wanted something I could have both hands free for doing thin straps.

So I was thinking of buying one of the pre-made burnishers, but they're big and expensive.

I have this old new Sears bench grinder that I got at a garage sale some years ago for like 10 bucks that's been sitting sealed in a box on a shelf. I don't know why I bought it, I had no use for it. It's still sealed in a box probably from the 70's or something.

After reading this thread with all the ideas I thought why not? You guys are using washing machine motors! I busted it open, disregarding the don't take this off and don't operate without that thing, and took the wheels off to check the shafts and it looks like it'll work with that Amazon one. I wasn't too sure because this is a 3450 rpm one speed fits all light duty grinder, but you guys are saying 3450 works so what the heck. All in, it's gonna be around 60 bucks and if it works I'll be thrilled and wanted to thank you guys for these posts. I'll update this when I get the burnisher.

[JMWendt]

2 hours ago, Mike516 said:

 

Just make sure your burnisher shaft hole size matches the size of the motor shaft.  I tried to use a 5/8" burnisher on a 1/2" motor shaft, thought I could "joogie" it and get it to work.  No way.  Too much vibration.  Horrifying, really.  I finally used that 5/8" shaft air compressor motor and it turned out very nice.

2 hours ago, Mike516 said:

 

 

I have a cocabolo dremmel burnisher that I been using for a couple of years, but it's become a little unwieldy if you have to use it a lot. I wanted something I could have both hands free for doing thin straps.

So I was thinking of buying one of the pre-made burnishers, but they're big and expensive.

I have this old new Sears bench grinder that I got at a garage sale some years ago for like 10 bucks that's been sitting sealed in a box on a shelf. I don't know why I bought it, I had no use for it. It's still sealed in a box probably from the 70's or something.

After reading this thread with all the ideas I thought why not? You guys are using washing machine motors! I busted it open, disregarding the don't take this off and don't operate without that thing, and took the wheels off to check the shafts and it looks like it'll work with that Amazon one. I wasn't too sure because this is a 3450 rpm one speed fits all light duty grinder, but you guys are saying 3450 works so what the heck. All in, it's gonna be around 60 bucks and if it works I'll be thrilled and wanted to thank you guys for these posts. I'll update this when I get the burnisher.

Quote

 

I have a cocabolo dremmel burnisher that I been using for a couple of years, but it's become a little unwieldy if you have to use it a lot. I wanted something I could have both hands free for doing thin straps.

So I was thinking of buying one of the pre-made burnishers, but they're big and expensive.

I have this old new Sears bench grinder that I got at a garage sale some years ago for like 10 bucks that's been sitting sealed in a box on a shelf. I don't know why I bought it, I had no use for it. It's still sealed in a box probably from the 70's or something.

After reading this thread with all the ideas I thought why not? You guys are using washing machine motors! I busted it open, disregarding the don't take this off and don't operate without that thing, and took the wheels off to check the shafts and it looks like it'll work with that Amazon one. I wasn't too sure because this is a 3450 rpm one speed fits all light duty grinder, but you guys are saying 3450 works so what the heck. All in, it's gonna be around 60 bucks and if it works I'll be thrilled and wanted to thank you guys for these posts. I'll update this when I get the burnisher.

 

[Mike516]

That one you linked from Amazon comes with 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch adapters. Are you saying the 1/2 inch one doesn't work?

1 hour ago, JMWendt said:

Just make sure your burnisher shaft hole size matches the size of the motor shaft.  I tried to use a 5/8" burnisher on a 1/2" motor shaft, thought I could "joogie" it and get it to work.  No way.  Too much vibration.  Horrifying, really.  I finally used that 5/8" shaft air compressor motor and it turned out very nice.

 

 

[JMWendt]

Might have been a 3/8 inch shaft.  The adapter seemed right, the shaft seemed wrong (on the motor).

[Mike516]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Mike516]

It seems to work! I only have one set screw engaged on the sleeve but it seems to work ok. I wouldn't say it's 100% dead true, but it's close enough to work.

I wish I could have contacted the seller though. Their email both on Amazon and their website is no good. I wonder how they're staying in business with no way other than phone number to contact them.

But like I said, it's good enough, so I can't complain.

[Mike516]

Ok, so I called and got hold of someone by phone due to the wobble I was getting. He seemed like a nice fellow and suggested possibly due to both set screws not being able to be tight that's where the wobble was coming from. He told me to send him pictures and he would see what he could do to help. Sent the pictures and nothing. So I waited a few hours and texted him again and he says he got the pictures, he's not sure what I should do about it but he's going to think about it some more.

My wife thinks he blew me off. I say he's going to text me back maybe after the holiday weekend. Let's see what happens. I'm still hopeful there are still businesses out there who care about their customers.

Hey burnisher guy, if you're on these forums and read this, please text me with a solution or even to say you don't know what to do so at least I can be right in an argument with my wife for a change. Thanks.

I'll keep updating this thread as things evolve.

[Lobo]

I was in the business from 1972 until retirement in 2015, last 8-1/2 years were full time. Started out with very little money to spend so I learned to adapt and modify tools to meet my needs without much investment.

For sanding edges I used drum sanders in various sizes chucked into a bench top drill press. I sanded while the leather was damp, which allows the leather fibers to fall to the bench rather than filling the air with dust. Typical holster or belt takes about 2 to 3 minutes. Sanding sleeves for the drum sanders cost less than $1 each and will do hundreds of holsters and belts.

For edge burnishing I used dye on the edges, then rubbed on a mixture of 50% beeswax and 50% paraffin wax, then burnished using a hard felt polishing wheel chucked into the drill press (about 1700RPM). Typical holster or belt takes about 3 minutes. Waxes cost about $2 per pound, which will do many hundreds of products. Felt polishing wheels cost about $1 to $2 each (depending on size), and each will do 200 to 300 holsters and belts.

Friction from the felt polishing wheel polishes the edges while also melting the wax and forcing it into the leather fibers at the edges. Result is a well sealed edge with high gloss polished surface, stands up well to use. Far superior to edge painting.

Waxes can be combined by placing equal amounts into a heavy duty freezer bag, then suspending the bag in a large pot of boiling water, then pouring the mixed wax into molds (I used muffin pans, producing cakes of about 2 oz. weight). Later on I found a nice lady who makes candles, and she produced my wax mixture in her machine, charging me $20 for 20 lbs (which was probably a 5 year supply in my shop).

Watch the sales at Harbor Freight and you can pick up light-duty bench top drill presses for about $60 each. I found that they last about 2-3 years in production (about 4000-6000 holsters, belts, etc). The shaft bearings eventually wear out because pressure has been applied from the sides rather than in line with the shaft, as a drill press is designed to function. When that happened I just bought another (actually I usually had a back up sitting new in its box ready to set up and continue production). You might prefer to pay more for a heavy-duty drill press from other sources.

So there you are. Less than $100 and you can expect proven professional results with minimum time and effort.

[johnnywalks]

Hey guys,

i had abit more time to my project and decided to go cheap/adventurous and try to build my own buffing machine. I got this variable speed motor off eBay, all fixed up with inverter, dial speed and ready to use. I thought i will just need to build a box to hold everything in place.

Problem! - the motor shaft uses a keyway, which to my novice knowledge are generally use for pulleys. How do i convert  a keyway shaft to hold typical adaptors with grub screws to hold buffing wheels? 

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by johnnywalks

[RockyAussie]

I'd Say just take out the key and get a extension adapter with the right hole size and grub screw it on. What horsepower have you got there and what is the shaft diameter?

[johnnywalks]

20 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I'd Say just take out the key and get a extension adapter with the right hole size and grub screw it on. What horsepower have you got there and what is the shaft diameter?

Thanks RockyAussie, i was thinking of that too, but will the grub srews lock onto the key slot? i am thinking i can just pull the whole adapter out sideways? Hope any experts, engineers or anyone who had done this before can give their feedback.

My shaft diameter is about 14mm estimate, which i believe a 5/8 adapter is closest? https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G5551-Arbors-8-Inch-2-Inch/dp/B0000DD4B1/ref=pd_sim_469_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=41CV-8WxEhL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=SQE5VVEPR61RKK14JGK1

 

Specs of my motor attached, i got this off eBay and it is variable speed and spins two directions.

Also, i was trying to get the cloth wheel and i was told by my supplier in France their cloth wheel has an inside diameter of 20mm....seems rather hard to find an adapter of that size...

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by johnnywalks

[RockyAussie]

Hi Johnnywalks, I am sorry that I had not read your entire post on this before. Now I think I see what you are trying to do. I wish I knew what other machinery you have, but what you have here as far as my judgement goes will be fine to do an edge grinding machine. I have attached pics to show how I have made something similar. Mine my look rough but I can move the whole motor up and down to apply pressure in the best place easily.Problem though is that using these type of edge paints in my experience is not much help with these type of wheels other than the 80 grit rubberized wheel. If you get the leather too smooth and shiny the paint will peel of easily. I use these edgings every day and you have to remember that the leather in the first instance needs to be sanded inward toward the middle or the pressure will flair your edges out. After I have finished my bevel sanding I  then sometimes mostly on thicker materials like my belts use the grinder to nicely round out the shape. The horsepower of your motor would not be much use for polishing and you would be better to look for about a 2 hp motor for that. I'll cover that in a later post.This motor has a receiving hole that you can make use of the thread. Therefor you only need a flange made up to neatly go over this shaft and shaped a bit like mine shown. Get an engineering shop to lathe it for you and make sure the height allows you to put in the screw and put pressure down.No grub screws needed. One direction it will want to undo so make sure that switch can not be used in the wrong direction.Note the leather piece made up to stop grit getting down into the bearings.If you don't have a small belt sander grinder set up I would be getting this first.The pics showing the soldering iron (light dimmer switch)and the smooth sanding pad and the grey scotch brite material which is the smoothest are some of the most useful tools you could ever want for these type of edging. The workhorse with self made attachments is for doing belt lengths. DAM I hope this is of help.

[johnnywalks]

10 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Hi Johnnywalks, I am sorry that I had not read your entire post on this before. Now I think I see what you are trying to do. I wish I knew what other machinery you have, but what you have here as far as my judgement goes will be fine to do an edge grinding machine. I have attached pics to show how I have made something similar. Mine my look rough but I can move the whole motor up and down to apply pressure in the best place easily.Problem though is that using these type of edge paints in my experience is not much help with these type of wheels other than the 80 grit rubberized wheel. If you get the leather too smooth and shiny the paint will peel of easily. I use these edgings every day and you have to remember that the leather in the first instance needs to be sanded inward toward the middle or the pressure will flair your edges out. After I have finished my bevel sanding I  then sometimes mostly on thicker materials like my belts use the grinder to nicely round out the shape. The horsepower of your motor would not be much use for polishing and you would be better to look for about a 2 hp motor for that. I'll cover that in a later post.This motor has a receiving hole that you can make use of the thread. Therefor you only need a flange made up to neatly go over this shaft and shaped a bit like mine shown. Get an engineering shop to lathe it for you and make sure the height allows you to put in the screw and put pressure down.No grub screws needed. One direction it will want to undo so make sure that switch can not be used in the wrong direction.Note the leather piece made up to stop grit getting down into the bearings.If you don't have a small belt sander grinder set up I would be getting this first.The pics showing the soldering iron (light dimmer switch)and the smooth sanding pad and the grey scotch brite material which is the smoothest are some of the most useful tools you could ever want for these type of edging. The workhorse with self made attachments is for doing belt lengths. DAM I hope this is of help.

Thank you for your input, nice setup and lots of space! 

The intention of my motor is mainly to smooth out the edge paint's final coat rather than sand the leather edge itself. The horsepower is bit low on mine, but i think that does the job based on what i researched. 

I don't think i will look for another motor, these stuff are not cheap in the United Kingdom and am happy i got a decent deal off this variable speed setup.  I was hoping someone can point the right direction to solve my keyway shaft issue of fitting an arbor that allows polishing wheels to be fitted. 

 

 

 

[johnnywalks]

Just found this and looks like this guy is locking the grub screw with no issues.

https://atelierdubricoleur.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/mounting-a-steel-wire-wheel-monter-une-brosse-dacier-rotative/

[RockyAussie]

What I was trying to say is I don't think you can use a rotating wheel and get any joy on those type of edge paints. Some finish grinding before edging application yes. I have found the iron and other stuff I've shown in the pictures will work better and quicker. I think if you don't have it a polishing set up would be more worth spending your time on. I would love to be proved wrong and if so please inform me.