How do I evenly dye a large area?

[tcanthony]

I have an idea for a large tote bag for my daughter in law. The project would be fairly large; about 15X12". Most of my projects have been holsters and such so my leather dying doesn't matter much if it isn't uneven. My concern is with such a large piece, how to I dye it and keep my color consistent throughout the whole piece?

[electrathon]

Dip dye it or spray it. 

[tcanthony]

Thanks for the quick reply. I have not heard of dip dying but the spray dying I have heard of. Looks like it requires a lot of equipment. 

Compressor, air brush, bottle, etc. Is this the way you are suggesting? If so, what do you suggest for equipment?

[electrathon]

Yes, with a paint gun or air brush.  To dip dye dilute fiebings dye with alcohol. Pour it in a cake pan, put the leather in, slosh, remove and pat it dry with a towel. 

[AndersenLeather]

People always recommend dip dyeing or spraying when dyeing big pieces. I have never seen a picture of anybody actually doing this with a large piece. I dye pieces that are 50x25" using this method: Dyeing big pieces with good results. I would love seeing somebody trying to dip dye that big a piece. Also I would not want to dye the flesh side of the leather as it would soak up so much dye!

I dont think it is possible to get a perfect even color on a big piece of leather as the leather does not take in the dye evenly. I dont think this matters as it adds character to the leather and shows that its actually natural product. 

If you want a almost totally even color then you need to buy it pre dyed.

 

[Dwight]

5 hours ago, jonasbo said:

People always recommend dip dyeing or spraying when dyeing big pieces. I have never seen a picture of anybody actually doing this with a large piece. I dye pieces that are 50x25" using this method: Dyeing big pieces with good results. I would love seeing somebody trying to dip dye that big a piece. Also I would not want to dye the flesh side of the leather as it would soak up so much dye!

I dont think it is possible to get a perfect even color on a big piece of leather as the leather does not take in the dye evenly. I dont think this matters as it adds character to the leather and shows that its actually natural product. 

If you want a almost totally even color then you need to buy it pre dyed.

 

The reason "People always recommend dip dyeing or spraying when dying big piece" is very simple, . . . it works.

If you want to spend all your waking hours trying other ways, . . . have at it, . . . but these are time tried and time proven to be totally effective.

Also, . . . I would not sell a product that was not dyed through and through.  I've messed around with spray dyeing and only use that for special accents on a product.  The base leather is dip dyed through and through.  What you save in dye over a 5 year period, . . . you will lose in customer complaints if there is any abrasion or scuffing on a dyed piece such as in the video you linked to.  That leather will even lose it's dye color the first time it's owner makes the mistake of leaving it where direct sunlight can bleach it out, . . . that does not happen as readily with dip dyeing.

Dip dyeing is in my opinion, . . . THE WAY to do it, . . . has never failed me.

May God bless,

Dwight

[AndersenLeather]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

The reason "People always recommend dip dyeing or spraying when dying big piece" is very simple, . . . it works.

If you want to spend all your waking hours trying other ways, . . . have at it, . . . but these are time tried and time proven to be totally effective.

Also, . . . I would not sell a product that was not dyed through and through.  I've messed around with spray dyeing and only use that for special accents on a product.  The base leather is dip dyed through and through.  What you save in dye over a 5 year period, . . . you will lose in customer complaints if there is any abrasion or scuffing on a dyed piece such as in the video you linked to.  That leather will even lose it's dye color the first time it's owner makes the mistake of leaving it where direct sunlight can bleach it out, . . . that does not happen as readily with dip dyeing.

Dip dyeing is in my opinion, . . . THE WAY to do it, . . . has never failed me.

May God bless,

Dwight

I dont see dip dyeing as a good way of dyeing big pieces of leather..At least not for me. Putting a 50x25" piece of leather into a container big enough to hold the leather as well as 5-10 liters of dye is not something I want to try. 

Would you seriously dip dye that big of a piece? 

 

 

[JMWendt]

So two things.  First, using a dauber or small cloth to dye a larger piece of leather can actually give you nicer results than dip dyeing or airbrushing . . . it creates subtle streaks and shades in the dye job that actually enhance the look and are quite appealing to the eye, especially as the piece ages.  I made a tote bag for my wife a few years ago that was (and still is) 11 x 14 x 4-1/2, and I dyed the whole thing piece by piece using Fiebling's light brown.  At the time I dyed it, I thought I was botching it as it appeared streaky and inconsistent.  These days, when I look at it, I realize the streaking of the hand dye job is really quite appealing and looks great.  

Second, airbrushing . . . you don't need a lot of equipment.  I set myself up with an airbrush last year.  Since I already owned an air compressor, my total cost was around fifty dollars.  If I'd had to buy a compressor, I could have still done it for less than $135.  All you need is a cheapo (and I mean the cheapest one you can find) airbrush from Harbor Freight Tools, hoses to connect to your compressor, and that's about it.  If you'd like more details, let me know and I'll post some pics and a specific parts lists.  My shop is set up now with a port for the airbrush, adjustable pressure regulator, and my cheap airbrush.  I recommend you get a half mask respirator as well.  I have an exhaust fan that was already in place in my shop, but that's optional as well.

The evenness and consistency you can get using an airbrush is unparalleled.  You also save on dye.  The dyeing is almost too even and perfect . . . lacks that hand dyed streaking effect.  But it is fast, easy, and clean up is quick too.  I recommend it for many (but not all) dye jobs.

[Dwight]

52 minutes ago, jonasbo said:

I dont see dip dyeing as a good way of dyeing big pieces of leather..At least not for me. Putting a 50x25" piece of leather into a container big enough to hold the leather as well as 5-10 liters of dye is not something I want to try. 

Would you seriously dip dye that big of a piece? 

 

 

Would you seriously dip dye that big of a piece? 

Of course I would, . . . 

In order to do that piece, . . . I would find myself a cake pan that was longer than 25 inches, . . . or some similar container.  

Presently my widest one is only about 20 inches wide, . . . and I rarely use more than 3/4 of a quart of dye in it, . . . start one end through the dye, . . . snake it down over the edge, . . . into the dye, . . . up and out on the other side, . . . the dye is something in the neighborhood of 1/2 inch deep in the bottom of the pan.  

JMWendt has good results with airbrushing, . . . I prefer dip dyeing, . . . it's just the old saying "more than one way to skin a cat".

The biggest piece I recollect dying for a specific job lately, . . . was a tote bag I made for a lady.  The big piece was about 18 by 40, . . . dipped, laid out to dry, and cleaned up in less than 10 minutes.  

May God bless,

Dwight

[MonicaJacobson]

Dwight, do you dilute the dye at all when you dip it? Or just buy the big gallons of dye? 

[electrathon]

1 hour ago, jonasbo said:

Would you seriously dip dye that big of a piece? 

 

I have done it many times. Fast, good effect and easy.

 

40 minutes ago, JMWendt said:

..... using a dauber or small cloth to dye a larger piece of leather can actually give you nicer results than dip dyeing or airbrushing . . . it creates subtle streaks and shades in the dye job that actually enhance the look and are quite appealing to the eye, especially as the piece ages.  I made a tote bag for my wife a few years ago that was (and still is) 11 x 14 x 4-1/2, and I dyed the whole thing piece by piece using Fiebling's light brown.  At the time I dyed it, I thought I was botching it as it appeared streaky and inconsistent.  These days, when I look at it, I realize the streaking of the hand dye job is really quite appealing and looks great.  

 

I have heard it argued many times by crafters that the poor quality of work shows it was done by hand.  I have always felt that poor quality shower the end used it was poorly made.  I have never seen anything of size that was dauber dyed that was anything better than unacceptable. To me, lines and streaks just show that you do poor work.  I love distressed and color variations, but they need to be done properly.  If I made something the size of the bag you are referring to and I did not want to dip it I would have used a piece of shearling, fast and moving.  It would not take more than a few seconds each to dye the pieces.

[JMWendt]

2 hours ago, electrathon said:

I have done it many times. Fast, good effect and easy.

 

I have heard it argued many times by crafters that the poor quality of work shows it was done by hand.  I have always felt that poor quality shower the end used it was poorly made.  I have never seen anything of size that was dauber dyed that was anything better than unacceptable. To me, lines and streaks just show that you do poor work.  I love distressed and color variations, but they need to be done properly.  If I made something the size of the bag you are referring to and I did not want to dip it I would have used a piece of shearling, fast and moving.  It would not take more than a few seconds each to dye the pieces.

I have to disagree.  Depends on the effect you want.  Although a bad dye job can make a piece look bad, hand dying can be used to lend an effect not unlike really nice wood grain, subtle and beautiful.  The trick is in the details, just like any aspect of an art.  I think on the tote bag to which I was referring, I used an old torn up t-shirt rag, not a dauber, so maybe I've misrepresented the method.

I'm not sure where you've seen it "argued by crafters that the poor quality of work shows it was done by hand."  Sounds like there are probably reams of forum space devoted to both sides of that argument.  And poor quality work can be produced on or with machines as well.  I guess I know what junk is when I look at it.  I also know machine versus hand sewn-- or hand dyed versus dip dyed / airbrushed-- when I look at them just by looking at the little things.  The methods used to make something themselves are not indicators of inherent quality.  A piece can be hand sewn and be junk.  A piece can be machine sewn and be junk.  Or either can be awesome.  Same applies to dyeing.

I'm not saying I prefer dying by hand.  I'm just saying don't discount it as amateurish until you've experimented your way through it and reached the acme of your own skill set.  A lot of the details that go into a piece being "high quality" are nuanced through practice of the basics, and hand dying is one of those basics.  If you think your work is poor quality when you are dying it by hand, maybe you haven't mastered the skill set yet.  Just saying.  Same thing with learning to use a head knife and hand cutting things that a lot of people use punches to cut.

That being said, I feel like I have hand dying mastered, since it is what I've done for decades now.  Airbrushing is a new skill that I am developing.  I don't think my airbrushed items look as good as some of my hand dyed works.  They are almost too even.  But my aesthetics are my own, so what do I know?  And I still eff things up frequently while hand dyeing.  So by mastered, I guess I really mean I am unable to learn anything new more than I'm saying I know a lot.

Regarding dip dyeing . . . I recommend that you use a large flat container (big flat storage bins work well) and dilute the heck out of your dye with alcohol (or water-- dye dependent obviously), and then pour off the remainder and rebottle it (glass jars work well).  The dye goes a long way this way and you don't waste much.  You probably use less, in the long run, dip dyeing in diluted solution and rebottling than you do hand dyeing.  Airbrushing seems to win if you want to conserve dye in the long run.  Air brushing is usually surface only, so it won't wear worth a damn.  Scuffs and gets scratched up.  Dip dyeing rules the roost if you want durability.  Second place is hand dyeing.   

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by JMWendt

[klaykrusher]

12 hours ago, electrathon said:

Yes, with a paint gun or air brush.  To dip dye dilute fiebings dye with alcohol. Pour it in a cake pan, put the leather in, slosh, remove and pat it dry with a towel. 

Just wondering why you dilute it and at what ratio?

[silverwingit]

Very strong opinions here. But there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I disagree that dip or spray dyeing are the only ways to produce a professional product.

Some of it depends on the look you want but I really like block dyeing large areas. I happen to like to enhance the natural marks on a hide on some of my larger projects. I think the fat lines, insect bites, barbed wire scratches and on occasion even a brand give great character to a satchel or bag. I dislike leather that has been treated so heavily that you can't tell it's leather by looking at it. But that's just me.

I make a wooden block from a 6" length of 2x4, sand the edges and corners so they are nicely rounded off and then staple a six or eight layer folded t-shirt tightly up around the sides of the wooden block. Then I make a 2:1 or 3:1 dilution of a Feibing's oil dye with alcohol and saturate the cloth pad with it by holding it right side up and pouring dye until it's almost ready to spill over the edges. The t-shirt pad will absorb amazing amounts of dye and it quickly and evenly distributes. I've essentially made a giant ink stamp pad.

Then I apply the dye with light pressure and even wide sweeps across the piece. It's critical to use well-diluted dye and overlap the sweeps in different directions to achieve an even, streak-free piece. What I like is the way that the little depressions or raised spots take the dye just a little differently from the surrounding perfectly flat areas. This is what enhances the natural appearance of a large piece of leather in a way that appeals to me and my clients.

Here is an example of a satchel I made.

If you look closely you can see the little marks I am talking about. And I would argue that the dye is applied quite evenly enough for a professional appearance. Without an air brush or a huge mess from a dipping it in a large enough container of dye to do the job.

Michelle

Edited May 9, 2016 by silverwingit

[electrathon]

2 hours ago, klaykrusher said:

Just wondering why you dilute it and at what ratio?

Most if the times dyes are considered concentrates.  Depending on the intensity/darkness you are looking for about 50/50.  Sometimes way more or way less.  Always good to do a test piece on the same hide.  Do a test, let it dry and see the final outcome.  A lot of the times all you will get is very dark brown to almost black from straight dye, diluting gets lighter colors.

[Dwight]

5 hours ago, MonicaJacobson said:

Dwight, do you dilute the dye at all when you dip it? Or just buy the big gallons of dye? 

Yes, Monica, I do, . . . just as electrathon said in his post above.

I developed my system years ago, . . . ALL my dyes are diluted 50/50 with thinner, . . . which makes my dye ALWAYS the same.  The leather may take it differently, but at least when I started out, . . . all things were equal.

Most of my work is not "color critical" as I deal in a lot of dark browns, black, and an occasional saddle tan.  

May God bless,

Dwight

[klaykrusher]

2 hours ago, electrathon said:

Most if the times dyes are considered concentrates.  Depending on the intensity/darkness you are looking for about 50/50.  Sometimes way more or way less.  Always good to do a test piece on the same hide.  Do a test, let it dry and see the final outcome.  A lot of the times all you will get is very dark brown to almost black from straight dye, diluting gets lighter colors.

Well that will certainly explain why my products are so dark.  That and the fact I apply 3 coats of dye to get good coverage I am happy with, although the color is always darker than what I anticipated.  I was just thinking that darker color was the trade-off for even coverage.  Time to start experimenting.....

[Colt W Knight]

18 minutes ago, klaykrusher said:

Well that will certainly explain why my products are so dark.  That and the fact I apply 3 coats of dye to get good coverage I am happy with, although the color is always darker than what I anticipated.  I was just thinking that darker color was the trade-off for even coverage.  Time to start experimenting.....

That is why I went to using an airbrush, all my shades of brown turned out dark brown once I got even coverage. I would dip dye more if I had a nice place to keep the tubs. I have hand tremors, so I have a hard time hanging on to things or dropping things. So no vats of dye anywhere where I will most likely spill it.

 

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

19 hours ago, silverwingit said:

I make a wooden block from a 6" length of 2x4, sand the edges and corners so they are nicely rounded off and then staple a six or eight layer folded t-shirt tightly up around the sides of the wooden block. Then I make a 2:1 or 3:1 dilution of a Feibing's oil dye with alcohol and saturate the cloth pad with it by holding it right side up and pouring dye until it's almost ready to spill over the edges. The t-shirt pad will absorb amazing amounts of dye and it quickly and evenly distributes. I've essentially made a giant ink stamp pad.

Ooooh! I like that idea!

That satchel came out really sharp, too!

I'm gonna run home and try that.

 

[ramrod]

i have used those small propellant cans that you screw to the top of a glass container. forgive me - i can't remember the name. anyway, it gives a very even and nicely applied stain finish. the only problem is that you have to spray all day long to get enough to properly penetrate the leather. i found out the hard way when i finished spraying a piece of leather. it was beautiful. but i happened to have scratched it after drying and found that it was literally a surface coating of dye. i am all for dip dying and i do that when i can. but i have the same problem when it comes to large pieces.

[Colt W Knight]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

i have used those small propellant cans that you screw to the top of a glass container. forgive me - i can't remember the name. anyway, it gives a very even and nicely applied stain finish. the only problem is that you have to spray all day long to get enough to properly penetrate the leather. i found out the hard way when i finished spraying a piece of leather. it was beautiful. but i happened to have scratched it after drying and found that it was literally a surface coating of dye. i am all for dip dying and i do that when i can. but i have the same problem when it comes to large pieces.

Prevail sprayer

[Mongo]

Depending on the size of your project, you may want to consider buy double shoulders or a side from Wickett and Craig already dyed.  A friend of mine who does a lot of CC holsters and knives sheaths says that this has saved him tons of time and his customers like the results.

[gigi]

I share the same opinion: consider buying leather already dyed if you don't have tooling on the project and you need to use a large area of leather. (Unless you want many shades of the color).