Budget starter machines

[Dave4]

This board gets a lot of threads where newbies ask about budget vintage light-leather starter machines or budget vintage WF machines.  I'm one of them!

With so many machines on the planet, knowing what to look for is half the battle.  Especially for newbs!

If I've learned one thing here already, it's that this board has a lot of folks who know models and specs and capabilities of sewing machines!

It'd be great to have a list assembled in one place of viable budget starter leather machines with relevant info and comments for each.  Perhaps two classes:  Non-WF models that can be made to work, and purpose-built WF Models that sometimes pop up at lower price levels.  A few possible examples: 15-91, 31-15, old Japanese makes, etc.  WF's - 111', etc, etc.  

Non-WF models: Brand & Model, Years Made, Type and Thickness of leather that can be sewn, Even-feed or WF available?, expected Clearance Loss from installed WF, Clutch-Motor?, Servo-Motor adaptable?, Needle Size range, Thread Size range, expected Price to pay at a garage or estate sale, expected Cost for Modifications (WF, Servo, etc), Comments on duty-level, Top-3 Items to check when first looking at the machine, SPM Comments, Other Comments.

Older WF models: Brand & Model, Years Made, Type and Thickness of leather that can be sewn, Feed Type, Clutch-Motor?, Servo-Motor adaptable?, Needle Size range, Thread Size range, SPM Comments, expected Price to pay at a garage or estate sale, Other Comments, Top-3 Items to check when first looking at the machine.

Let's limit the total expected machine cost to a range of $100 to $600, including mods.  Let's exclude the TuffSew genre.

If the membership is willing, fire away!  I'll compose and maintain a pdf chart of the info provided, and link it right here on this post.  

Also, please suggest changes or additions to my spec list.  It was compiled by a newb!

We will assume that machine buyers will take responsibility for learning about required maintenance & lubrication after purchase, and will start new threads to ask about parts or repairs.  

Thanks.  All input or feedback is welcome!

SewRev1.pdf

[mikesc]

Price depends entirely on where each member is, ( used machines in Europe can cost 2 to 3 times the US price, likewise new machines ) better not to restrict price to $100 to $600..if you do restrict it to that price range, the thread, list and pdf will only be of any real relevance / interest to US members..

Edited June 5, 2016 by mikesc

[Colt W Knight]

I paid for $ 400 for my Consew 206 rb-1, then upgraded to a servo motor total cost with new needles around $550

Flat Bed

Reverse

Sews 3/8"

Up to #138 thread, Ive read that it will sew 206, but I can't get mine to do it.

Ive used up to #25 leather point needles

~4.3 SPI is as large as it will go, but it prefers 5-6 SPI

M size bobbin

Edited June 5, 2016 by Colt W Knight
picture

[brmax]

I think your on to something there, as the general search I typed in "budget machines" and 16 pages popped up with 391 results and so glancing over the 1st page I recall 211, 1341, 545, 441 and more so this chart will surely expedite a grouping you could say.

But I will say we may very well miss a great deal of historical education, and the need to offer another form of self generated experience.

As many things we do in the movement towards the goal, the sometimes unknowns on the path result in a better understanding in further steps.

In ways of efficient selection in a professional world we make choices of "new" because many older things have been proven and redesigned in so many ways to be easier and within new materials.

It should be drilled that though very good machines of design each may need professional work in basic and could also be at a cost. These cost are most likely first talents of interest and pursued towards professional trained techniques gained at cost and time. This can be seen as another very important and in the same feeling from the Old School and termed experience matters.

Good day and lets enjoy this what you started, thanks Dave

Floyd

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

A decent condition walking foot machine can usually be found for sale by the owner in the $600 to $800 range. Check your local and nearby Craigslist, under Sewing Machines > Business. But, they are usually upholstery machines with clutch motors and 1:1 pulleys. You will probably have to change to a 2" motor pulley and a 2" shorter v-belt, or buy a new servo motor with a 50mm pulley and matching shorter belt. This will drive your cost up by about $150 or $160. At this point you are better off buying a brand new Consew P-1206RB.

[mikesc]

My 211U166a ( WF compound feed )<= 'cos there is top and bottom feed sometimes also called ( WF)   and WF compound feed <= the best ..was advertised at €450.00 ( about $600.00 ) normally here in France they go for €700.00 to €1200.00 ( about $900.00 to $1500.00 ..and that is used ! )..I "haggled" and paid cash €350.00 ( about $450.00 ish ) came with a clutch motor, I built a 5:1 speed reducer..sews 8 to 9mm of veg tan easy..runs upto 138 thread, might run 207 , but I figure it wouldn't run it for long before something expensive broke..so I don't make it do what it wasn't built to handle easily..

 

My Juki DLU 490-4 came with an  older EFKA clutch motor with EPS..is not normally suited for leather ( it is a high speed, oil bath, garment machine ), it is sometimes described as WF ( but is actually top and bottom differential feed ) no needle feed..can be sued fro leather ( it will punch through 8 to 9mm veg tan ) but it wasn't designed to run slow or to go around corners, but for heavy tarps and canvas it is ideal ( thanks again to Eric "gottaknow" for pointing me to a manual for the differential feed system ) , bought it from someone who had no idea what it was or how to use an industrial machine, paid her around $150.00 , she was very eager to take the money, for her it was a "boat anchor"..it ran, but had not been looked after correctly.

 

I also have a 29K51 patcher, paid about the same as the Juki , needs a restore when I have the time, runs OK though.

Have a semi domestic Kachiran 4048D..superb for light leather , lambskin, goatskin etc up to about 4 to 5oz total..goes for €650.00 to €800.00, I bought mine used , but with a 10 year guarantee still to run, for half that lower price, owner had no idea how to use it, have seen them go on ebay in the UK for about what I paid for mine..and also for much more..

Last Friday bought A Singer 15K88 treadle ( with drop feed and reverse , it is clean, runs smooth, I'll strip and clean and oil etc it anyway ) for freehand embroidery on lambskin, Darren mentioned them as good for embroidery, I watched few Youtube videos about them, especially Marilyn Lee's work, drove 100kms each way and bought one the next day..Paid €50.00..

Today, Sunday, someone is advertising another 15K treadle ( without the drop feed, or the reverse ) at less than 1Km from me, it looks clean, sews, and they want only €20.00 .no real use to me ( can't drop the feed dogs , but could cover them for embroidery )..that is cheap..usual price here is more like €100.00..a 15K can run lambskin and light garment leather..and Singer made millions of them..

Edited June 5, 2016 by mikesc

[mikesc]

The new Consew that Wiz mentioned would be at least twice that price here in France, if one could find one, and would probably involve driving at least 500kms each way to see one..and I've commented in other thread about the non existent French after sales services.."once the machine is out the door and the cash banked or the cheque cashed, the customer is forgotten"..and the price of spares..Oi!!!..<= applies to all brands, all dealers here..:( ..every and any dispute , even getting them to respect legal guarantees, has to go to court, at the customers cost, with lawyers, in the area where the dealer is based..

[MADMAX22]

3 hours ago, mikesc said:

The new Consew that Wiz mentioned would be at least twice that price here in France, if one could find one, and would probably involve driving at least 500kms each way to see one..and I've commented in other thread about the non existent French after sales services.."once the machine is out the door and the cash banked or the cheque cashed, the customer is forgotten"..and the price of spares..Oi!!!..<= applies to all brands, all dealers here..:( ..every and any dispute , even getting them to respect legal guarantees, has to go to court, at the customers cost, with lawyers, in the area where the dealer is based..

Have you talked to anyone in the states about shipping you one? Even if shipping saved you a quarter of the price the support you could get would be much better even if you have to wake up early to get ahold of someone. 

[Dave4]

Hey - thanks for the replies!  I can include international prices whenever they are provided.  So far Mike, it looks like all your machines were less than $600.

brmax, i see your point & thanks for the feedback.  If I buy a machine, I intend to use the board and other resources to learn about it.  I don't think a shopping list for newbs will interfere with the learning process of those who still wish to learn.  

4-yr old thread: http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/40710-fabric-sewing-machines-for-leather/ : Sylvia sews 4oz with an easy feed on a Brother; Cheryl 15-91, CowboyBob praises 15-91 and 31-15, Nick 201K, Spinner Husky 315, Anne mentions 15's, pfaff 30's, 1950's Jap, Art says 15, 31, 201, 66, 301, and a few others will work fine for lite duty up to 10oz of chrome or soft handed veg sewing with up to 45 and sometimes 69 thread, Wiz talks 15-91, Hooligan echos +201.

7-yr old thread: http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/20945-singer-201/ : guy asks about a 201, Art says NO!, Wiz recommends $1000+ rigs, guys asks about budget machines, Wiz sez 111, Art says "There are literally 100s of posts on this very subject on this forum.", Wiz writes an excellent essay, Particle says 'We need a sticky because these are very common questions', etc.  

So people have been asking the same questions here for at least 7 yrs.

And lots of people have been buying various old-iron machines at yard sales for $100 and dropping another $200 into them and then sewing their butts off on garment or upholstery leather and making cool stuff and never thinking of spending $1500 on a machine.    

That's what I'm after.  As a newb, I have no idea what to look for on craigslist or at yardsales.  No newb does, but they always ask.  

Let's make a list!

What are the 1950's Jap machines?  What brand, what model, what color, what size, what the heck are they?  

What's a 15, 30, 201, 111, 211?

What's a 78-3?

What's a 144WSV33? 

145W103?

Which pfaff's?  What are they?  

What else is out there in old iron that can be used for light-leather?  

What are the big ol WF industrials to keep your lucky eye peeled for?

Take your time.  Pick one machine, spec it out, I'll add it to the list.  Wait a week, do another.  

Colt - thanks for a great start!  SPM, not spi.  How fast are you running it?

Thanks everyone!

The spreadsheet link is at the bottom of the OP.  Just click the link.  

 

 

[mikesc]

Quote

So far Mike, it looks like all your machines were less than $600.

I was lucky / good at haggling Guy in the UK in a recent thread was looking at, and asking questions about a 211U166 in UK ebay at £599.00, which is below the usual price I've seen them at there or here..