Leather - Quality - Price

[Red Cent]

It is so depressing reading through all of the posts about changing leather suppliers.

[nrk]

what's this about?

any message?))

[Troy I]

I agree Red...I started with W&C and have stayed with them for close to 5 years now...they have always treated me fair...and don't ever give me the runaround...some people have complained that they were shut down in July, but this happens every year, for maintenance, which is a nessaary business practice. 

Yes sometimes you might get a hide with some marks, but this is the nature of the business...not every hide is perfect...I dare say that there are few, if any, leather workers that have turned out a project without any mistakes.  Filling orders at a tannery is the same...mistakes happen...if it is essential to have that perfect hide, then go to the place of purchase and pick it out yourself.

I make a trip once or twice a year to Curwensville, PA to get my hides..at first I would go and spend hours picking out the ones I wanted...now...when I arrive they have all my hides wrapped and ready to go, I take them site unseen and I have yet to be disappointed with their selection.

Also, you get what you pay for..if you purchased tannery run, it is hit or miss--that is the risk you take for a lower price.

Sorry for the ramblings.

[Red Cent]

I like the ramblings.

NRK, just commenting on the trials and tribulations of our members and wanting to find that employee that will diligently search for the best hides they have to fill our order. AIn't gonna happen unless you pay the piper. A month or so back, I attempted to order from W&C. Annual shutdown. Ordered from another supplier I have used (shoulda known better) and was a little disappointed. Recently tried to order from W&C and was told 4-5 week. Catching up from shutdown. Cannot wait. Repeat scenario.

The local Tandy manager is a wheeler and dealer. And I leave with the feeling I have left money on the table. At least I can feel and touch.

Just talkin' and bi..............complaining. Got to keep it to myself from now on.

 

[JLSleather]

Well, I have certainly had not-so-wonderful things to say about some suppliers of leather and leather-stuff.  But I'm really not the sit-n-whine type... whatever I said was intended for teh benefit of other leather people.

Here's the POINT, tho.. leather is sold by GRADE -- whether that's A, B, C  or 1, 2, 3... whatever.  And those grades come with descriptions.  

So I'm not asking anyone to go through a bunch of hides to find me the "pretty" ones -- just sell me leather out of the pile for the grade I paid for.  If I can't tell the difference between what you call A and what you call C, then AT LEAST one of us is confused.  Either I don't know what I'm looking at (sure, okay) or those hides don't belong in that "A" pile.

I've never objected to paying the "A" price IF AND ONLY IF I'm getting the "A" leather.  So if I get less-than-acceptable leather, you're getting it back.  Once, or even twice, could happen.  But 3 times?  Now we're just playing 'mail tag', and I'd like to think I could be doing something better than calling to order leather, wait, view leather, call to complain, return leather .. repeat....

But, 'suppliers' don't "get a pass" because they're a business and "things happen".  I can't see me ever telling a customer ..

• Yes, I know that holster is hard to get the gun out....you just need to learn how to use it differently, 
• true, that belt could have been 1" longer.  Or you could hit the gym occasionally.
• I agree that what I sent doesn't look like the picture, but hey-- they can't all be 10's !

I say I can't see ME saying that, because there ARE some who do just that.  Oh, those wrinkles?  That adds charm and character to the project.  Oh, that blotchy dye? That's 'rustic' - I meant to do that.  Separated grain layer? Call it a "zombie" project.

For me, KEEP your wrinkles -- I don't want 'charming' leather.   If you can't send me the "A" I'm paying for, then have the spine to say that.

 

[bikermutt07]

5 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Well, I have certainly had not-so-wonderful things to say about some suppliers of leather and leather-stuff.  But I'm really not the sit-n-whine type... whatever I said was intended for teh benefit of other leather people.

Here's the POINT, tho.. leather is sold by GRADE -- whether that's A, B, C  or 1, 2, 3... whatever.  And those grades come with descriptions.  

So I'm not asking anyone to go through a bunch of hides to find me the "pretty" ones -- just sell me leather out of the pile for the grade I paid for.  If I can't tell the difference between what you call A and what you call C, then AT LEAST one of us is confused.  Either I don't know what I'm looking at (sure, okay) or those hides don't belong in that "A" pile.

I've never objected to paying the "A" price IF AND ONLY IF I'm getting the "A" leather.  So if I get less-than-acceptable leather, you're getting it back.  Once, or even twice, could happen.  But 3 times?  Now we're just playing 'mail tag', and I'd like to think I could be doing something better than calling to order leather, wait, view leather, call to complain, return leather .. repeat....

But, 'suppliers' don't "get a pass" because they're a business and "things happen".  I can't see me ever telling a customer ..

• Yes, I know that holster is hard to get the gun out....you just need to learn how to use it differently, 
• true, that belt could have been 1" longer.  Or you could hit the gym occasionally.
• I agree that what I sent doesn't look like the picture, but hey-- they can't all be 10's !

I say I can't see ME saying that, because there ARE some who do just that.  Oh, those wrinkles?  That adds charm and character to the project.  Oh, that blotchy dye? That's 'rustic' - I meant to do that.  Separated grain layer? Call it a "zombie" project.

For me, KEEP your wrinkles -- I don't want 'charming' leather.   If you can't send me the "A" I'm paying for, then have the spine to say that.

 

This sounds like years of experience talking.

[CaptQuirk]

I got the August sales flyer from Tandy, and they had veg bellies for $20 each. I jumped on it. Got them in and found what was more like 1 1/2 bellies. One was nice, the other looked like it was torn, not cut, and about half as big as the other. Springfield was awesome for a while, when they offered a "flat rate" shipping. Now that is gone, and it costs an arm and a leg to order. At least Tandy had an outlet in Atlanta,, saving a lot of time and some shipping. Not much, but it is something. Don't know where else to go.

[Michael Sheldon]

$20 for bellies is NOT a great price. That's around $3-$4/square. Weaver sells strap bellies for $2.67 a square, Wicket and Craig for $13 each.

Heck, even my wholesale price on Tandy's bellies is $15, which is still way too high IMO, given Tandy's consistency and quality.

Tandy sells their "economy tooling sides" for $119 (5/6 oz), which comes out to around $4.70 a square, and that will be more usable square.

 

[CaptQuirk]

Yes, a side would be cheaper by square foot, but I have no room to store anything yet. Only doing a few small pieces here and there, it doesn't make sense to buy a big piece, spend a lot, and have the unused get ruined.Being a retail customer, I pay more up front, up to $30 for a belly, plus shipping. Shipping is what really hurts. But, thanks for mentioning Weavers, I'll look into them.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

 

Yes, a side would be cheaper by square foot, but I have no room to store anything yet. Only doing a few small pieces here and there, it doesn't make sense to buy a big piece, spend a lot, and have the unused get ruined.Being a retail customer, I pay more up front, up to $30 for a belly, plus shipping. Shipping is what really hurts. But, thanks for mentioning Weavers, I'll look into them.

What kind of bellies you buying? If you're paying up to $30 per belly, maybe ya want to buy some from me Seriously, check out Wickett and Craig. I don't know about their bellies, but on sides they have no minimum. Better leather, less money. 

[CaptQuirk]

Hello Sioux, I am buying just regular veg bellies. Both Tandy and Springfield charge about $30 for them. And yes, I do need to find another source, hopefully closer to home. Being in Georgia, I am limited to Tandy, Michaels, or Hobby Lobby. I did try a Herman Oaks shoulder once from Springfield, but didn't see enough difference to warrant the extra few bucks.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I haven't bought leather locally in more years than I care to count. Anything that comes in my shop gets shipped hundreds of miles. Freight is just part of the cost of being in business. After all, it ALL gets shipped in from somewhere else at these retail outlets.  And yes I'd LOVE to be able to look at a hide before I buy, but where I live, it's just not possible.  And I know you're a hobby guy yet and buying retail, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you try W & C leather. As far as I know, Wickett will sell to anyone; you don't need a storefront, you don't need to be in business, you don't need a tax ID number.  Their veg tan leather is quite nice, tools nicely, oils up evenly, fun to cut. I don't think I've ever hit a raw spot. It does have a more mellow temper than Hermann Oak for example, and with the belly being the softer part of a hide to start with, it may not work well for a project requiring some body or rigidity (holsters), but for practice projects it is a great deal and will allow you to sample their leather so that when you ARE able to buy a whole side, you'll know what to expect.  I do get a little better yield out of a side of HO for that reason; I can cut lower in a side of HO before running into mushy leather, AS A RULE. Not so with a couple sides of russet harness lately, but generally speaking, that holds pretty true.  On the other hand, I know a guy who argues he gets BETTER yield from Wicketts leather, because the sides run bigger. In any event, W & C is a pleasure to deal with and they will help the little guy. Sounds like I'm working for them doesn't it?

[Michael Sheldon]

I only buy leather from Tandy if I can go to the shop and paw through the stacks. I swear they only get the stuff the other places turned down. Mostly I pick up one-off oddball stuff, pigskin, lining leather, dye and conchos.

Weaver's stuff is good, and the price is reasonable. But sometimes getting the weight you want in the leather you want is problematical. On the plus side, they almost always have it on hand ready to ship. Downside for many folks, you really need a wholesale account to get good pricing. And as of this year, a wholesale account requires a minimum of $1,200/year in purchases. Not a problem for even most small pro shops, but out of reach for a hobbyist. I get most of my suede splits and almost all of my hardware from them. I also got my foot press and better hand-tools from them.

Wickett and Craig has great stuff, and the prices are good. But, the lead times can occasionally be long. Not a place to order from if you need it in a hurry. I try to make sure I get my order in before I run too low. I get almost all of my veg-tan, latigo, harness and bridle leather from them.

[MADMAX22]

Was cleaning out some boxes in the garage and ran across some WC invoices from 2012, wasn't even that long ago it seems but wow how prices have changed.

[CaptQuirk]

Timing is a huge factor, as I usually get a request with "How soon can I get it?" The further away the source, the longer the turn around, and the higher the cost to ship. Had to order line 20 snaps this morning. $5 for the snaps, $10 to ship them. But, Tandy is 3 hours away in Atlanta, and I should have them tomorrow or the next day. Springfield takes about 5 days, and the shipping is about $17. Normally I have these rivets and snaps, but had a bad run of luck the past few days, and burned through all of the female half of the snaps in a day. Happened again last night.

[keplerts]

American Leather Direct has Veg tan bellies for $12 right now.

 

[CaptQuirk]

Thanks for that name drop, I'm looking into them now. Kentucky isn't too far off. How is their quality and customer care?

[keplerts]

The saddle skirting I have bought has been very nice.  Matt, the salesman is very helpful.  Give them a try.

[Mike516]

I just placed a small order with W&C for the first time this morning.

After being annoyed with SLC for axing their free shipping, I realized it's not their fault the shipping companies keep raising their rates. But I don't want to raise my prices, and the shipping costs keep going up (they're about mid country so probably toughest for the coasts).

I would like to have a reliable supplier close to home that doesn't cost an arm and a leg for shipping. So I got my fingers crossed

Edited August 29, 2016 by Mike516

[JLSleather]

I don't think location within the U.S. has much to do with shipping costs.  I ship here 'n' there, and a few hundred miles one way or another doesn't affect much.  Ship to TX, NY, CA.. all about the same cost.  In fact, that SAME package to Minneapolis - which is just  up the road -- costs the same as the package to San Antonio

My wife used to get sucked into all that "hype".. What? Gas is 10¢ off at Walmart?  Here... I'll drive across town, burn up $3.00 worth of gas, to get over there and save $2.00 on a fill-up (20 gal times 10¢)!

IN the end, hopefully people are balancing "cost" (price PLUS shipping) with quality.  FREE shipping on belly leather is of no  interest to me.  I don't even know why people would bother with buying "B" grade leather, when teh "A" grade is only $5 more (per side).  For perspective, a dog collar guy is making what... safely 70 collars from a side?  So.. 70 divided into $5 makes the cost difference about 7¢ ....

[Mike516]

First Class mail you're probably right. But shipping Priority Mail or UPS heavy-ish packages like leather sides is going to be more from Springfield MO than it is from PA for me. I been shipping all manner of odd shaped and different sizes including sewing machines, and I can tell you, especially with the USPS, the price differences are a lot different depending on where I ship to. But mainly I'm trying to find a reliable supplier and I went with W&C because you guys all recommended them. So we'll see what happens.