Singer "SV" machines

[MADMAX22]

Just trying to figure out some ways to estimate production years for 'W' serial number machines. Thinking if there was changes to the original style badge that we could narrow down the dates of the machines a little bit. 

Here is another example which has the big spool and the same lettering as the small spool one but also has the twist details in the thread. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by MADMAX22

[MADMAX22]

Well forgot about this site http://needlebar.org/nbwiki/index.php/Singer_Logo_Timeline

Looks like the MANFG CO and MAN CO NY were registered at the same time (1875). The silver badges were 1930 but looks like kept the same large thread spool. 

I have been looking at serial numbers and dates from random pictures of machines I have scene online (non W versions) and it looks like the small spool starts somewhere in either late 30s or early 40s (earliest one I have found was 1942 so far). With exception of the "Texas" badge, the badges changed to the colored rim type in 1951 (as early as 1947 I think because of the production date and sold date, some were made before the centennial year in order to be sold in 1951 from what I have read). 

Sooo theoretically depending if your 'W' machine has the badge still on it and its original you could narrow down the date of manufacture to a 10 year or so window. Still wanna look and find more  serial numbers off of machines with badges to see what the earliest small spool badge I can find is dated. 

 

Or I could end up being full of hot air.

Also not sure if I am derailing this thread or not, figured finding out a way to date the W machines would be related but feel free mods to move my post or delete or I could just start a new thread. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by MADMAX22

[LumpenDoodle2]

The badge might help in dating, but Singer also had a habit (at least at Kilbowie) of mass producing stuff, then popping the excess in a warehouse, and using it up as and when.

That could sometimes mean that if a special was needed, they would have a rake around their shelves.    So the body could be from one run year, and some of the innards from another.    

I can just imagine an order for SV machines getting the finishing touches, and someone grabbing a handful of spare badges off a dusty shelf.  

[MADMAX22]

Good info thanks Doodle. Its probably not even worth looking into but Ive been on grave shift (2300-0700) for the last few nights without anyone else in the office and practically nothing to do except find the end of the internet, repeatedly.

[LumpenDoodle2]

That's why the gods invented the interweb :-().    Cool way to wander through time.

Edited September 3, 2016 by LumpenDoodle2

[Constabulary]

I also think the dates list on ISMACS represent the casting date and not the actual machine production date. But that's a guess - of course. Back in the days I don´t think they have even thought a bout "Just in Time" production and logistics and had huge storage sheds and probably produced machines on demand - of course not just one machine at a time but also not necessarily when they did the casting. I don´t think they put the # on the casting when they have assembled the machine - I doubt that. But who knows - lots of speculations...

[Constabulary]

What have you seen at the end of the internet?

Maybe Isaac Merritt Singer sits there and says:  "Now that you have found me I tell you that I have fooled you all" 

[MADMAX22]

Haha I wish, didn't find nothing yet. Atleast for the first few weeks we had stuff to do and other people in the office. Now we have a week or so of required manning for that " just in case" scenario. Probably the easiest money Ive ever made but jeez it gets down right boring. Now if I could do some leatherwork while I was up here it wouldn't be bad at all.

[mikesc]

You could braid whips..to while away the hours..also would do wonders for your reputation at work

[dikman]

Madmax, I don't think you're derailing the thread. My idea was to have a single thread about the SV machines so that someone who acquires one (or wants to know about the SV designation) could hopefully find, in one place, the sum total of knowledge about just what that designation means (and then realise how little is known about them!). I too wondered about using serial numbers, but given the lack of records for W machines, the fact that no-one is really certain just how SV machines fit into Singer's timeline and the huge number of models and sub-classes that Singer made I figured it probably wouldn't work.

Plus what Lumendoodle and Constabulary said makes sense - they probably just had huge inventories and grabbed what they needed to make something up.