Advice for the type of machine I should get

[Melonie]

Hey there! I am new to this forum and about 3 years into working with leather. Up until this point, I have been sewing all of my leather products by hand but am ready to invest in a leather sewing machine because of the increasing value of my time (and pain in my fingers). I am having trouble choosing the best machine and was hoping to get some great advice here. Let me tell you more about what I do. I have a small business making leather goods such as refillable journals (basically a leather cover for journals) and wallets. Those are my main two products at the moment, but I am really hoping to expand in the future to bags, and maybe even shoes but am honestly not sure if I will head that direction or expand on the types of journals that I make. I use 5-6 oz oil tanned leather and sew 2-3 layers at a time. I also do journal covers that are made by sewing canvas and 1-2 layers of leather together. I don't have photos of these but am attaching photos of my leather journals that will hopefully give you an idea of what I am working with. I have been doing some research on my own and the CB-3200 has really caught my eye with the way it handles the leather. I fell into the "industrial strength" sewing machine trap and purchased a machine that can sew leather but is definitely not meant for the work. I am wondering if there is anything a step down from the CB-3200 in price that will work just as well for what I am doing, since I'm not stitching harnesses and saddles here. One other thing I would like in a machine is the capability to sew with thicker thread. I'm not expecting to get to the thickness that is shown in my photos, but something that looks nice and sturdy and that is nice and sturdy would be great! Thanks in advance for the help!

 

-Melonie 

[Roq]

A cowboy 0797 or equiv will handle 138 thread, do wallets and your journals + most bags. I have run 207 top and 138 bottom but it is a bit of a stretch to say it will work well everyday. Call Ryan at Neel's saddlery  (330) 549-9044 , he will be able to guide you and provide excellent service.

If you want to use heavy thread you will need a different machine.

[brmax]

The machine you mention is a design they made just for what you mention really, some of our materials look pretty good with a certain large size thread. Though some products we make wouldn't require the strength of thread used, but again looks sometimes sells.

Its a factor to figure our time on projects and then retrieve a portion for our equipment cost, seems a tough one but I would just say be sure to account for equipment that you may wish "could" do the task.

good day

Floyd

[marsiede]

Hi how are you able to put texts on the journal covers?

[CowboyBob]

The CB0797 is a great machine BUT it isn't one I like to sell for finished leather products because it has feed dogs on it that can mark the bottomside of your leather.The CB3200 as stated will use a thicker thread & is made for sewing leather since it has a smooth feed dog so you don't have to worry about scratching or marking the leather.

[Melonie]

Thank you all for the responses, this really helped. It looks like the CB3200 is the way to go. From what I understand I will need a walking foot machine. Do you know of walking foot machines that may not be able to sew with thicker thread but will still easily sew through my layers of leather? I am ready to make the purchase for the cowboy if that is what I need, but I want to be sure that I'm not over-doing it and could get away with spending less money.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Melonie said:

Thank you all for the responses, this really helped. It looks like the CB3200 is the way to go. From what I understand I will need a walking foot machine. Do you know of walking foot machines that may not be able to sew with thicker thread but will still easily sew through my layers of leather? I am ready to make the purchase for the cowboy if that is what I need, but I want to be sure that I'm not over-doing it and could get away with spending less money.

Bob sells all manner of walking foot machines. But, most of them are designed to sew upholstery leather with thread sizes not exceeding #138 (T135). Furthermore, they don't usually sew over 3/8" (24 oz) and some max out at 5/16" (20 oz). Right now your package seems to be at 18 ounces, plus or minus and few ounces. This thickness deserves to be sewn with at least #207 bonded thread, or even 277 on top, for a bold appearance. The CB3200 can do that. A standard walking foot machine can't.

As a reference, it looks like you are hand sewing with thread that is over a half millimeter in diameter. That is about the diameter of #277 bonded thread. You would use a #25 needle to sew with #277 on top and in the bobbin. That is where the 3200 comes into its own. And the smooth feed dog won't leave tooth marks on the bottom layer.

[Melonie]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Bob sells all manner of walking foot machines. But, most of them are designed to sew upholstery leather with thread sizes not exceeding #138 (T135). Furthermore, they don't usually sew over 3/8" (24 oz) and some max out at 5/16" (20 oz). Right now your package seems to be at 18 ounces, plus or minus and few ounces. This thickness deserves to be sewn with at least #207 bonded thread, or even 277 on top, for a bold appearance. The CB3200 can do that. A standard walking foot machine can't.

As a reference, it looks like you are hand sewing with thread that is over a half millimeter in diameter. That is about the diameter of #277 bonded thread. You would use a #25 needle to sew with #277 on top and in the bobbin. That is where the 3200 comes into its own. And the smooth feed dog won't leave tooth marks on the bottom layer.

Wow thanks! This is exactly what I needed to know to make a decision. I really appreciate it. My next posts will probably be cries for help on how to use my new machine. Thank you again!

[Melonie]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Bob sells all manner of walking foot machines. But, most of them are designed to sew upholstery leather with thread sizes not exceeding #138 (T135). Furthermore, they don't usually sew over 3/8" (24 oz) and some max out at 5/16" (20 oz). Right now your package seems to be at 18 ounces, plus or minus and few ounces. This thickness deserves to be sewn with at least #207 bonded thread, or even 277 on top, for a bold appearance. The CB3200 can do that. A standard walking foot machine can't.

As a reference, it looks like you are hand sewing with thread that is over a half millimeter in diameter. That is about the diameter of #277 bonded thread. You would use a #25 needle to sew with #277 on top and in the bobbin. That is where the 3200 comes into its own. And the smooth feed dog won't leave tooth marks on the bottom layer.

 

I actually have one more question. What would the difference be between the CB3200 and the CB105 for what I am doing?

[Yetibelle]

Here is the problem, and I don't have a solution.  Do you get the machine that fits the "current need" or do you get the machine that fits the "future need" or is "more" capable that what you think you need?  What I have noticed is that people like to start with the current need machine and then try push the machine to do more than it is able or recommended to do and then get frustrated. So from that perspective I would spend the extra money (now rather than later) and get the CB4500. You will appreciate the longer arm depth, the larger thread options and the ability to sew through just about anything like butter. 

 

[Wizcrafts]

15 minutes ago, Melonie said:

I actually have one more question. What would the difference be between the CB3200 and the CB105 for what I am doing?

There are some gigantic differences. One difference is that the CB105 machine you asked about is single feed, via aggressive feed dogs. You will have to rub out the tooth marks after sewing. It has a static presser foot to hold down the material as the needle does it work. Second, there is no Cowboy CB105 in the US market. Third, if you buy that machine, you'll have to pay for shipping from Australia. Fourth, the machine in the ad is a Keestar, not a Cowboy.

Cowboy USA does offer a similar machine, branded the CB2500, which is imported, setup, adjusted, sold and serviced by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. It has bottom feed only, but does offer a roller foot instead of the flat presser foot. The range of thread is from #138 through #346. It uses an odd needle system, Type 328, which is longer than a walking foot but shorter than the 441 clones.

[Wizcrafts]

14 minutes ago, Yetibelle said:

Here is the problem, and I don't have a solution.  Do you get the machine that fits the "current need" or do you get the machine that fits the "future need" or is "more" capable that what you think you need?  What I have noticed is that people like to start with the current need machine and then try push the machine to do more than it is able or recommended to do and then get frustrated. So from that perspective I would spend the extra money (now rather than later) and get the CB4500. You will appreciate the longer arm depth, the larger thread options and the ability to sew through just about anything like butter. 

 

Be like me and buy more machines as the need arises. Toledo Industrial loves me. My shop is polluted with industrial sewing machines, sewing everything from the lightest cloth up to 7/8 inch thick holsters. Each machine is threaded with different sizes of thread.

[SolarLeatherMachines]

2 hours ago, Yetibelle said:

Here is the problem, and I don't have a solution.  Do you get the machine that fits the "current need" or do you get the machine that fits the "future need" or is "more" capable that what you think you need?  What I have noticed is that people like to start with the current need machine and then try push the machine to do more than it is able or recommended to do and then get frustrated. So from that perspective I would spend the extra money (now rather than later) and get the CB4500. You will appreciate the longer arm depth, the larger thread options and the ability to sew through just about anything like butter. 

 

Each machine has a sweet spot for sewing weights and thread sizes.  Think about where you're making your money now, and choose a machine that fits.  If you ever need to trade up to a larger machine, a well cared for cowboy machine will fetch 80% or higher on the used market.  Around Dallas, used machines are gone in 24 hours.  Then use that money to buy the next size up.    No sense spending money on something larger than what you ACTUALLY will use.   

[dikman]

Plus if you get one that is too big (handles very thick leather and thread) it may cause issues if you try to do lighter stuff.

[Melonie]

On January 9, 2017 at 6:20 PM, SolarLeatherMachines said:

Each machine has a sweet spot for sewing weights and thread sizes.  Think about where you're making your money now, and choose a machine that fits.  If you ever need to trade up to a larger machine, a well cared for cowboy machine will fetch 80% or higher on the used market.  Around Dallas, used machines are gone in 24 hours.  Then use that money to buy the next size up.    No sense spending money on something larger than what you ACTUALLY will use.   

 

So do you think that the CB3200 would be too much when sewing journals where some parts are just one layer of 6 oz leather and a layer of canvas together?

[SolarLeatherMachines]

It would be on the low end of the Machine's range, but it would sew just fine.  I would use a 92 thread.  Getting a flat slotted needle plate would help, too.  

[Axeman]

Dad and I purchased a cowboy 3200 machine from Bob at Toledo Industrial a couple months ago. I too got tired of the sore fingers!! I sew axe sheaths, usually three thicknesses of 8oz veg tan with 277 thread top and bottom. My work is similar to yours in that my sheaths are completely flat. That being said, This is the best purchase I have made in a LONG time. I have sped up my process 10 fold or more and no more sore fingers!! The feature I like the most is that in reverse, it puts the needle in the same holes so my locking stitches at the beginning and end of a run are very neat. You wont regret buying one and Bob is great to work with.

One suggestion, buy plenty of different thread and needle sizes from Bob. His prices are spot on. Pay shipping once. A month from now, you will wish you had other thread size options.... ask me how I know.

[Melonie]

On 1/21/2017 at 10:47 AM, Axeman said:

Dad and I purchased a cowboy 3200 machine from Bob at Toledo Industrial a couple months ago. I too got tired of the sore fingers!! I sew axe sheaths, usually three thicknesses of 8oz veg tan with 277 thread top and bottom. My work is similar to yours in that my sheaths are completely flat. That being said, This is the best purchase I have made in a LONG time. I have sped up my process 10 fold or more and no more sore fingers!! The feature I like the most is that in reverse, it puts the needle in the same holes so my locking stitches at the beginning and end of a run are very neat. You wont regret buying one and Bob is great to work with.

One suggestion, buy plenty of different thread and needle sizes from Bob. His prices are spot on. Pay shipping once. A month from now, you will wish you had other thread size options.... ask me how I know.

Thanks for the info!! I haven't made a purchase yet because I am still a little hesitant on buying such a heavy duty machine. I'm afraid that it won't be a good fit when I am only sewing 1or 2 layers of 5 oz leather. Have you used yours on lighter weight projects?

[Wizcrafts]

19 minutes ago, Melonie said:

Thanks for the info!! I haven't made a purchase yet because I am still a little hesitant on buying such a heavy duty machine. I'm afraid that it won't be a good fit when I am only sewing 1or 2 layers of 5 oz leather. Have you used yours on lighter weight projects?

If you only intend to sew about 10 ounces or so, a CB227R will do just fine. It is a medium duty cylinder arm machine in the same price range, but better with thin thread (up to #138).

[Techsew Ron]

7 hours ago, Melonie said:

Thanks for the info!! I haven't made a purchase yet because I am still a little hesitant on buying such a heavy duty machine. I'm afraid that it won't be a good fit when I am only sewing 1or 2 layers of 5 oz leather. Have you used yours on lighter weight projects?

For 2 layers of 5oz leather you may be better off using a light/medium walking foot machine. These can usually sew up to about 3/8" leather thickness and are better for thinner/softer leather. A more heavy duty machine will limit you for when you're sewing thinner leather. You can find these types of machines from any of our sponsors' websites.

[Axeman]

Not having had our machine long, I have not used it to sew lighter projects yet. If you plan on sewing nothing thicker than you currently sew, you may look at a lighter machine. My thought was that I bought a machine that will do what I currently sew and has the potential to sew thicker leather and larger thread. Some day, I may want to make a holster or something thicker. I always have the singer 29K to do the lighter stuff. As everyone has already stated. there is no such machine as a "do all" machine. Good luck.

[Melonie]

Thank you everyone for the great advice