juki 246-6 or brother c51

[marsiede]

Hi i need help with these machines..which is better for leather crafting and belt stitching?

[Darren Brosowski]

The Juki is in the same family as the Seiko CW-8/Consew 227r so #138 on the bottom and maybe #207 on top. Compound feed.

Brother part number is incomplete

 

[marsiede]

i think it is brother ls-c51-158

[Uwe]

The two machines you're considering are very close in cylinder arm design and overall capability.

Both the Brother LS3-C51

and the Juki DSC-246

are slim cylinder arm machines with horizontal axis hook. Either one is probably a fine machine and you won't notice a great deal of difference in using either beyond the different stitch length adjustment methods.

Do some searches on documentation and normal wear parts or accessories like feet, throat plates, feed dogs, hooks, etc. Pick the machine for which you can easily find documentation and affordable parts. Of course the relative condition and price of either machine plays a big role as well.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Uwe

[marsiede]

But are they good for sewing leather?

[Constabulary]

I´m sure they are as good as any other walking foot cylinder arm machine of this class. However - test them before you buy them - if possible.

[Uwe]

Yes, they are good for sewing leather - their nearly perfect within a certain range of applications.  But sewing heavy leather belts doesn't really fall within the range of applications that these machine are designed for.

Squeezing all that engineering into those slim cylinder arms requires some compromises.

Machines with larger diameter cylinder arms (e.g. Juki LS-341, Pfaff 345, etc.) have more room to pack larger, more robust mechanics, full four-motion feed dogs and vertical axis hooks with huge bobbins inside those arms. 

If your "crafts" include gun holsters and horse saddles, you need to step up to the big boys like Juki TSC-441 class machines

If your main goal is to sew leather belts and flat crafts like wallets and book covers, then you don't really need (want) a cylinder arm machine. You can buy a cheaper flatbed machine like a Juki LU-563 with better feed dog motion and larger material and thread handling capability (compared to your slim cylinder arm machines, not the big boy above).

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Uwe

[marsiede]

Thank you very much Uwe very helpful info

[MADMAX22]

What kind of belts are ya making? Some guys like to glue and stitch a bend into the belt and some gun belts are pushing 20oz of leather and stitched with 277 or larger thread. Just saying be aware of exactly what you want to do so there is no buyers remorse. Personally I would look at the max thread and leather thickness you want to make your stuff out of then find the machines that handle that range be it flatbed or cylinder arm. 

[marsiede]

Actually i am working on wallets and bags at the moment. Belts are occassional projects. I just want to be able to sew them when I need to or if I get an order. I hope the juki will do it. The unit I'm getting has an old servo motor attached...too old that it's still not digital :((((

[SARK9]

4 hours ago, marsiede said:

 The unit I'm getting has an old servo motor attached...too old that it's still not digital :((((

The fact that its not electronic/digital doesn't necessarily mean its old or totally inferior. There are "servo" motors sold currently that are a sort of re-hash of the basic DC brushmotors with a rheostat as a speed limiter, as seen on domestic machines from the 1970's like the White model 970. If yours works at all, its probably fine for now.

-DC

[marsiede]

Will this still be a good motor? It has brother written on it and it makes a loud clicking sound when i step on the pedal. Also i see it has a bad needle bar is it easily replaceable??

I tested it and it sews quite well..only when i turned the stitch length knob too much the reverse got stuck. Wondering if i should still get it after mechanic works on it.

[marsiede]

It is very hard to find this type of machine here and it is being sold for $500. Should i still get it and just have the repairs made?

[Uwe]

By the time you get done bringing this machine back from the near-dead and mutilated, you'll have invested well over $1K, approaching the territory of shiny new clones. Loud clicking noises in motors are rarely a good sign. That needle bar repair and mismatched gauge set look pretty bad, indicating the machine had a rough life in the hands of a hack. The seller's "excellent condition" label is far from reality, his use of "sawing machine" is much more accurate.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Uwe

[MADMAX22]

Its hard to say as Ive gotten some rough machines that were actually not that bad underneath. That being said its a crap shoot on what ya end up getting. If all it needs is a motor about $150 and a needle bar (guessing about $50 dont know) and it sews good then your still looking at $700 maybe. That is still close to a new clone 1206 ($1000 plus shipping). Now if there are other things which is highly likely then your cost goes up. For a machine in questionable condition with obvious repairs being required I wouldnt pay more than $150 or so tops if it was what I really wanted. 

[Wizcrafts]

44 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Its hard to say as Ive gotten some rough machines that were actually not that bad underneath. That being said its a crap shoot on what ya end up getting. If all it needs is a motor about $150 and a needle bar (guessing about $50 dont know) and it sews good then your still looking at $700 maybe. That is still close to a new clone 1206 ($1000 plus shipping). Now if there are other things which is highly likely then your cost goes up. For a machine in questionable condition with obvious repairs being required I wouldnt pay more than $150 or so tops if it was what I really wanted. 

You are probably unaware of the OP's location, because he has not listed it in his profile. The machine prices you posted are in US dollars, but our new member lives in the Philippines. Our money and prices don't apply there.

[marsiede]

A 2nd hand of this from local juki is around $1360. Right now since we are a start up we cannot afford that price but at the same time i would not like to spend $500 for something that would need too much repair. Well yeah this gives me too much headache :((((

[bikermutt07]

500.00 on something you can't utilize is still a waste of money.

[MADMAX22]

38 minutes ago, marsiede said:

A 2nd hand of this from local juki is around $1360. Right now since we are a start up we cannot afford that price but at the same time i would not like to spend $500 for something that would need too much repair. Well yeah this gives me too much headache :((((

Yeah starting a business is always a headache. It gets better sometimes. Just hang in there and see it thru. 

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

You are probably unaware of the OP's location, because he has not listed it in his profile. The machine prices you posted are in US dollars, but our new member lives in the Philippines. Our money and prices don't apply there.

Thanks yeah didnt see a location. Not sure what machines go for over there but assuming they could do a money conversion if they have internet available. Ofcourse lots of other things dont play into a simple conversion either. Our money and prices still apply unless ya take into the fact that all Americans have unlimited disposable income (atleast according to the drug companies).

[RockyAussie]

9 hours ago, marsiede said:

It is very hard to find this type of machine here and it is being sold for $500. Should i still get it and just have the repairs made?

This may look a tempting to you price but a needle bar in that condition makes it likely that a few other parts and gears etc may be in a terminal condition. I would only consider this at all after getting it checked by a GOOD sewing machine mechanic and getting all the replacement parts priced ahead first. Buying from a dealer can give you some rights to call on assistance later and when you are starting off you will most likely need help a few times to get through the learning curve. If you can get the work $1360 may be a very good buy.

[marsiede]

Had a mechanic look at it today. Asking the seller to replace the needle bar and guage. Mechanic said mechanisms still ok. Hope he is right. Re motor he said clicking sound is normal as it brakes?? Could this be true?

[ke6cvh]

I have been revisiting this old thread allot as we have 246 clones and 335 clones and are super familiar with Philippine machine market.  I want to comment on the needle bar.  In factories in the Philippines it is not uncommon for a mechanic to solder something in place to keep it there.  If needed to be removed it is unsoldered.  I don't think that is a weld in the picture.  The way it is done is to take 50/50 plumbers type solder, buy the cheapest type of non alkaline battery then cut apart and throw away the internal carbon rod, then take the zinc from the carbon/zinc battery, dissolve zinc in muriatic acid until it won't take any more.  The use of the 50/50 solder (50 percent tin and lead) and then electronics type flux (that becomes corrosive at soldering temps) after dipping some of the muriatic/zinc solution on the part to be soldered then use of the paste flux then higher power soldering iron and the solder is how it is done.  This is done in folder manufacturing with thin stainless steel in this country as well as holding parts together in a factory setting.  The picture says to me factory use but not for certain.  Easy to desolder and clean the parts up actually with a higher power soldering iron.  I would not have replaced that needle bar unless it is loose.  Just saying all this because surely lots will visit this old thread and see the solder part thinking it is a hack job....yup allot of factory mechanics are hacks for certain but this particular solder is not necessarily a sign of that.  The mismatched guage set however is a sign of a hack job but easily fixed...... I see lots of available parts for 335 than 246 as China now owns Pfaff is my understanding.  We have both 335 and 246.  I have been wondering I see 335G parts....is that the designation for the larger hook assembly by a "G".  I also find in our later 335 clone it seems to be more willing to take larger needles and top thread than the plder 246 clones but just an observation.   Regards, Mike