juki 441 Buying new Juki TSC 441 clone

[Diyer]

I am looking at upgrading from my Adler 105/64 to a unison feed machine, as I need to be able to have something that will deal with changes in thickness.

As I live in Portugal, I have some of the problems that others have voiced about dealer availability. Anything imported here from outside the EU attracts a 23% tax on the item plus postage, and often there is a 10% import duty to pay as well.So I will be buying within Europe, and have already contacted Sieck, Frank Brunner, and some others in the UK.My choice may well be between a well known make such as Hightex, but not set up for leather, or a less well known/regarded one such as Kingmax, which will be set up for leather.

PRICE VS QUALITY.

There is a huge difference in price between the genuine article, and the Chinese copy. As a retired engineer, I have always wondered where those cost savings have come from. Some will be the possibly artificial exchange rate, plus a lower labour cost. The rest will be "corner cutting"- lower or wider material specifications,lower tolerances on machining and finish specifications, plus more variability on heat treatment.(my pet hate- I cannot get sewing pins that do not either break or bend!!) Also eliminating or combining as many parts as possible will reduce manufacturing cost.

TECHIE STUFF

n my perusal of posts on this forum, I have found comments like "no timing marks" for clone machines. Is this really true for the Hightex (which is one of the makes I am looking at)?

For me this is a difficulty, as I will be doing my own maintenance, plus possibly having to do the setting up for sewing leather. I have downloaded both the Juki 441 manual and parts list (thanks to whomever put them up), and have looked closely at what is involved in doing the settings.I am pretty good mechanically, and do all my own machinery repairs, and have done the settings on my current machines successfully with the help of the appropriate manuals.

There are a number of components that have setting marks on them for the genuine Juki 441.Are any of them on the clones?

The parts in question are :- mainshaft, shuttle race body, and conrod eccentric cam.

How have people coped without those marks, other than trial and error, with many hours of sweat and frustration?Also, the settings in the manual are for the blanket stitch feed dog and foot, not the smooth leather ones.Is there going to be a difference-I did note that the manual states their settings are a "starting point".

What are peoples' experiences with "cheesy screws"? Which ones must be replaced with ones made of decent metal, or has the quality improved enough not to need this?Are the screw sizes REALLY  Imperial, not metric?

CONCLUSION

I suppose this is a "try to find out what I am letting myself in for", buying a clone 441, that may not be set up for sewing leather.

I am well aware of the potential learning curve that might be involved,(or not) but I prefer to have advance warning from those that have gone before- hence my questions. As I am a hobby leather worker, I cannot justifiy the extra cost of the genuine item, and used ones are in the hens teeth category, or silly money.(Unless someone knows different!)

[ZigZag]

I had the same problem buying a 441 in the UK. I have now ordered a Typical 441 and they have a central distribution centre for Europe.

http://www.typical-europe.com/en/sales-partners/

closest dealer to Portugal is either France or Morocco. Typical are a Chinese clone but seem to have a good reputation from the research I have done.

[mixmkr]

I would think you could make your own timing marks.  Not an issue really, I'd think.  Can't comment on Chinese clones though.  I'd be just as concerned about what to do, should the machine have issues.  Who would be responsible.  The value or a trusted dealer is definitely worth some $$

[dikman]

I can't comment on the 441 other than to say that from what I have learned from this forum I wouldn't have any qualms about buying a clone if one came along at the right price. I don't see where the possible lack of timing marks should be an issue, given that you are obviously mechanically capable - between the manuals and this forum you shouldn't have too many problems. Given where you're located I'd say the chances are pretty high that any machine you buy may need to be tweaked to suit what you want to sew, but again that's no big deal, in fact it's a good idea to learn how to do this.

So don't worry unnecessarily, just get into it and enjoy yourself (before I joined this forum a couple of years ago I couldn't even understand the complexities of a domestic machine - probably because I hadn't needed to, I suppose - but look at me now, I think nothing of getting stuck into industrial machines in order to try and get them to do what I want ).

[MADMAX22]

Hahahahaha thats funny dikman, manuals ahahahahaha, have you scene the manuals that come with the clones? 

 

OP if ya have the money get the real thing. If ya dont get a clone. 

One word of advice, if you get it from a dealer over there make them prove it will backstitch in the same holes. If they dont good luck getting it to. 

[Uwe]

For the 441 class machines, the original Juki TSC-441 Engineer's Manual (Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf) manual is your best option.

I see two references to alignment marks in the manual, both refer to the same area:

 

Unfortunately, my Cowboy 4500 (a Juki TSC-441 clone manufactured by HighTex and sold in the USA under the Cowboy brand) ) does not have these timing marks:

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Uwe
typo

[MADMAX22]

Thats probably why Steve I think it is says to align lip above the bolts along the main shaft to ensure correct timing. With a lack of timing marks you gotta use something although unless that key groove is always "aligned" properly dont see how it can be a reliable marker. 

 

Thanks for the manual Uwe, that will be helpful hopefully. 

[Wizcrafts]

Diyer;

If you're worried about clone quality, have you considered buying an actual Juki TSC-441?

[brmax]

Something I have found in the past, is many machines and types of machinery may need some align marks made.

Finding these specific areas requires sometimes a lot more in-depth checking, turning and or aligning of others to designated positions. For what its worth I have recently found in this new interest sewing machinery is the very same.

I quickly, finally? found a bit more up front gives me a chance to kickback and enjoy the very reason i started this journey.

Ask all the questions you can and want, a great number of members have seen or heard the answers and share these.

 

good day

Floyd

[Uwe]

6 hours ago, Diyer said:

What are peoples' experiences with "cheesy screws"? Which ones must be replaced with ones made of decent metal, or has the quality improved enough not to need this?Are the screw sizes REALLY  Imperial, not metric?

As for screws, there is a mix of imperial, metric, and specialty xx/64 screws in many machines. Most Juki parts manuals, including the Juki TSC-441 Parts manual (Juki 441 parts List.pdf) list screw sizes, which is super useful. 

You don't want the screw material to be too strong. If you're going to cross thread or strip some threads, you want the screw to die, not the threaded hole. It's MUCH cheaper and MUCH easier to replace a screw than it is to re-drill and re-tap a threaded hole.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Uwe