Juki DNU-241, Consew 206rb, request for advice

[pattyharrington]

I would appreciate some advice here. I have a Juki DNU-241 walking foot machine. I have been using it for about 3 years to sew mainly bags, briefcases and other medium weight leather goods. I use 138 and 207 bonded nylon or polyester thread with it. The problem I have is this machine is so unpredictable for me. I have had very few occassions to use it when I didn't have to stop what I was doing to problem solve. The tension has been difficult to perfect for me. I am not a novice and feel as though it shouldn't be this hard. Some of the issues I have had with it are: it regularly shreds and breaks my thread, will sometimes bunch up or skip stitches, if I tighten the tension ALOT it will sometimes sew a little better but is nearly impossible to remove from the machine then. I have adjusted the timing at least a dozen times.  The reverse is also unpredictable and you can feel a "jump" when the machine reverses and those stitches usually look crappy. A couple months ago I decided to put all machine stitched projects aside (they were being mangled anyway) and focus on getting this thing in a much more workable condition. I ordered parts and replaced the tensioner dials on the front. This did not help much so I replaced the entire hook assembly with very little gained from that. After adjustments in every other area I could find as a potential source of problem, I finally decided to call a professsional. Lol! I had a repair man who specializes in commercial machines come from 2 hours away to fix it. He spent several hours at my house working on it but never got it to sew the way he wanted it. He was perplexed (but that actually made me feel a little validated, lol). He took the machine with him to continue working on it. He contacted me about two weeks later and reports that he has been able to get my machine running forward and backward but with 138 size thread only not 207. I guess I'm ok with that, but it should be able to handle 207 is my understanding.

Now, here is where I need advice as well....... I am going to pick up the machine next week. I am a little hesitant and, frankly, fed up with this machine. I know the Juki is a good machine but I pretty much want to throw it out the window most days. He tells me that he has a Consew 206rb5 (or maybe 4, he said the plate is missing) that we could possibly do a trade on. I will probably need to do something different with my table but I'm sure my servo motor will work the same with the consew (right?).  He says the consew machine is running well and from what I can find it seems comparible to my Juki in as far as it will handle the same weight/thickness of leather. Is this machine less persnickity? More like to actually just sew something when asked? If in my shoes would others consider this to be a wise move? Thank you so much for your time and advice!!!

Patty

[mixmkr]

I'm going to watch this thread like a hawk, as I feel I can totally sympathize with your situation.  I use a JUKI LU562, a predecessor of your 241.  If I'm not mistaken, the 241 replaced the 562/3 with a short span and then the 1541 ( and 1508 series came out. )Yours being the horizontal axis loading bobbin...isn't it ???, where as the 562/3 and 1508 are top loading vertical axis.  I have a good friend who uses a DNU 241.  That said, I'm not an expert and will probably get laughed at by those in the know, around here....but have some comments and opinions.  Any rate, the friend says the JUKI is a great machine but a little fussy.  I interpret that to mean he has his issues too, but also has run lbs of thread thru his machine, enough to replace guides etc because of wear.  We both use 138 Tenara thread which is super slippery, so my tension is soooo tight you could squeeze a seed out of an uncut watermelon.  But currently it is sewing good.  I go in reverse and hold my breath, so I don't get tangles.   But fortunately those are typically lock stitches at the beginning or end.  I tend to think the Consew is probably a step down  But it is extremely popular as you know.  Your JUKI probably sells for $1000 more for sure.  But that isn't the issue or selling point.  I tend to think the 207 thread is at or slightly exceeding your machine limits.  At that point I might "believe" the quality, brand and type of thread become more important.  I've also (being lazy) stuck some 92 bobbins in with the 138 on top, and my machine seemed to like it.  Maybe stick your 138 on the bottom with your heavier on top.  Just a guess...and also probably not 100% desired.  I'm sure you've experimented but routing your top thread a tad different.... I also put my spools about 6 feet away to help with twists, etc.  Whether it helps or not, I'll just say it seems like it.
Lastly, I tend to not think too highly of the tech as there are too many of these machines running great, out and about.  He should trade UP to you would be my opinion.  Look at used pricing and I think you'll agree.  A NEW Consew complete will sell for about what your 241 sells for used much of the time.
Yeah....  I see all these beginners on their plastic Brother machines sewing like wildcats, but they're not doing the tough stuff.  I think it is just finding that sweet spot.  IF you change your types of sewing a lot,.... that might be a hidden issue.  But if your sewing is the same consistent number of layers, material and thread... I think once you find the groove, your JUKI should take off.

Best of luck and again...just some minor experienced opinions.

Edited February 3, 2017 by mixmkr

[Hockeymender]

Patty,

I'm located in Michigan also. send me a PM re who has your current machine (repair guy). I think i may have some input for you.

[brmax]

I think that 241 would be good to hold for a bit, I am curious of the color and if there is a model, letter.

From little i know trying to use 207 on the top would be tough, and in that specially tuned because its just out of the design range.

I would bet its gonna work out after a this repair, good luck and have fun with it.

Floyd

[pattyharrington]

A little more info here: I have two other machines that Imuse for all orher aplications (cloth, canvas, denim) so conceivably, I don't need to make major changes to the settings with the Juki. And I agree with the comments about the 207 thread, that it is at the top weight the machine comfortably takes, but It should be able. At the same time, it was shredding, snapping, bunching lighter weight thread as well. Thank you very much for your help!!  

I may just hang on to it and see how it goes, but input is definitely appreciated!! 
 

[mixmkr]

I"d also try different needle brands and sizes or even thread for your shredding and breaking problems.  I'm beginning to think it is like car wax.... what works with one isn't the best for another.  Cheap thread is just that too...I think.

[Ferg]

I have a Consew RB5, love it, in fact it is my favorite. When I bought it I tried the 207 thread which it did not like at all. Don't exceed size 138. My times with shredding have been one of several problems: Wrong size needle (too small) for the thread in use, improper thread path, and "Funky" thread.

Ferg

[Uwe]

10 hours ago, pattyharrington said:

but it should be able to handle 207 is my understanding

I'm curious if the manual states that or if a sales person made that claim. Very few machines in that size and weight class handle 207 thread well, if at all, or for a long time.

A lot of things have to come together to operate machines at or beyond their design limits. I once got a Consew 225 to sew 207 thread ( https://youtu.be/zwVGkT0e5BU ) , but who knows if it would do it for long.

Is your machine a plain DNU-241 or a DNU-241H? That little extra "H" sticker may be prone to falling off I suppose. I've not been able to find any info or specs on a non-"H" DNU-241 machine.

 

 

If you're going to switch machines, I'd make the seller demo that it handles 207 thread on YOUR materials. Otherwise you're just swapping machines and inherit a different set of potential problems. The RB4 and RB5 machines are very nice, but really more of the same just like your Juki, with subtle differences at best.

SInce you're making bags and other non-flat pieces, you should really consider getting (or adding) a cylinder arm machine with a barrel shuttle. Those hook designs are a totally different animal and handle thick thread MUCH better. The usual suspects include 441 class machines (e.g. original Juki TSC-441, copies like Cowboy 3200, 4500) or an Adler 205 class machine. Those will definitely sew 207 thread (up to 415) all day long with grace and without complaining. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Uwe
typo

[CowboyBob]

Uwe is correct it will tend to give you problems with #207.We used to sell them new years ago & had a customer come in wanting one for nylon halters & using #207,I showed him what we had & he didn't want to spend $5,000.00 on a new Adler & pointed to the Juki 241,I said we can try the thread & see what happens but I didn't recommend it for a long term.He says just to get started then go to a bigger machine,I told him he pushing it & might have problems.We I sewed on it ,it worked great.He bought it & was back in less than a week,he jammed it up.I guess he didn't hold the thread.We fixed it & showed him again how to hold the threads when first start.He came back maybe 3 wks later & broke the hook on it.So now he starting to understand what I told him & bought a Singer 97-10 for the large thread & kept this for the chaps & thinner sewing. Moral of story it's best to get the right machine for the job your doing or you'll end up spending more later .

The only problem with the model 241 is it doesn't have a bobbin case opener like Juki's newer model 1541S has & that helps prevent the machine from jamming up esp when your using large thread otherwise when you use #138 or thinner on this machine it should give you years of trouble-free service.

Edited February 4, 2017 by CowboyBob

[brmax]

If you by chance have a 241 "HS" model it could have a latch lever.

So many times with these letters on the model numbers, they can be a pain understanding or knowing of and so we have to look at other things like photos. Quite possibly as this model could, use a hook #B1830241SA0  that uses most times the lever/latch opener. vs the standard ole hook

I was curious on this very same topic early on with a plain ole Juki 1541 i have obtained (used/ brand new works perfect). As it has to my eyes much the same base shafts and gear setup as the 241 not using the latch/lever and thus uses the different style hook that is about half the cost or less. 

Something i recall hearing about, in some chatter was the manufacture with safety clutch on the 241. There was again someone mentioned different colors of final paint like white vs the hammered, but hey thats the net ya hear all kinds of info! this makes it always interesting here.

heres a tip with some levering information that some can use, below in link.

have a good day there!

http://www.raichert.com/adobe/DNU-241HS Instruction Manual.pdf

Edited February 4, 2017 by brmax

[pattyharrington]

Thanks for all the replies! My machine is the 241H. I should have specified. No S, just the H. Like I said I have had problems with lighter weight thread (138) but the tech says he has it sewing forward and backward now. It's nice to hear that others have good things to say about this machine because I think my thoughts about trading are mostly related to the hours I have spent troubleshooting with it. I was hoping to hear if the Consew 206rb5 would be more "reliable" or give me less problems but it kinda sounds like they are kind of similar in terms of what they do. Is that what I'm hearing? That the Juki is no more persnickety than the next machine? Thanks!!

[mixmkr]

I'm just a "reader" but I'm under the impression  (not regarding the Singer 111), the JUKI is the "mold" and the Consew and others are the replicants.  The Consew if not mistaken is Chinese made while most of the "better" JUKIs are still made in Japan at a slightly higher quality level.  I might also think the JUKI will hold its' value better too as well.  Lots of Consews sold too.  But if someone told me :JUKI" was "brand snobbery" (!!) I"d listen too.  ;-D

Edited February 4, 2017 by mixmkr

[Uwe]

Establishing sewing machine lineage and pedigree is a messy affair. 

The Juki DNU-241 started life as a Yakumo 280L manufactured by Nakajima and later also sold as a Nakajima 280L. Juki eventually bought Nakajima and incorporated some of the Nakajima machines into the Juki lineup under new names. An adopted original, if you will.

Consew 206RB1/2/3/4/5 machines were manufactured by Seiko until a few years ago. Consew was a brand/entity created by Seiko to sell their machines in the U.S. back when "made in Japan" evoked the same emotions that "made in China" does now.

Consew and Seiko separated/divorced at some point and Consew changed sourcing of 206RB5 from the re-badged Seiko originals to a Chinese clone manufacturer somewhere in the middle of the 206RB5 model run.

[Ferg]

UWE,

My RB5 made it through with a Made in Japan sticker. We all know that doesn't necessarily mean anything but it is a good machine.

Ferg

[mixmkr]

To clarify...am I off base to say that initially the Singer 111w155 was the Grandad and all others followed along with their various adaptations with JUKI being one of the first (and appearing to start the trend in that style machine)?  Such as the LU562 and onwards.  Granted those are older technology and (as a guess) probably aren't in the same league as JUKI's 1508....  but a continuation of the Singer model.  And the various competitors/offshoots from Tacsew to Consew, etc jumped in along the way??  The DNU241 can trace its' roots back to the Singer, as does the 206RB.

[SARK9]

One of the machine historians can jump in here, but the familiar casting form of the 111w series goes back to the 111w100 at least, and probably further, as this upper casting mold was recycled on a zillion other Singer models, as well as the Seiko-Consew & Juki incarnations. The Consew 224/5/6 was pretty much a copy of the 111.xxx Singer models ending up with the Singer 111G156, with few significant improvements really. The Juki LU-563 was probably the most "improved" of the copies I know of, with its larger hook and a couple of other upgrades. As far as the 206-RB stuff, its interesting to note that Singer reversed these copy dynamics when they rolled out the "531-8BL" with their own decals and paint job on it. Imitation is the sincerest form, etc., and I'm sure Seiko was heavily flattered by the marketing rights fee. I personally wish Juki had made a Singer 144 copy as popular as the 563 while they were at it....

-DC

Edited February 4, 2017 by SARK9
addendums

[shoepatcher]

SARK9

Information:   Juki copied the 144 class with the  LG-158.  I do not think they made 10" models, just 20" and 30" arms.

glenn

[SARK9]

4 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

I do not think they made 10" models, just 20" and 30" arms.

One reason they were never as popular as the LU-563's.....the 230 lb machine head!

-DC

[shoepatcher]

Sark9,

I think the LG157 preceded  the Juki LG158.  Trying to find out more  info on that subject.  And yes, these were monster machines.

glenn

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Don't know why folks are referring to the LG-158 in the past tense, this is still a new, current model machine from Juki.

Just to put it out there, LG-158 is not a direct copy of any Singer 144W / 145W type machine, however specs are nearly identical.  

I don't think I've ever seen anything but a 30" LG-158, where Singer had thier models in 10, 20 and 30" types, as well as Consew/Seiko who now have 20 and 30" only.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[pattyharrington]

I am heading to Bay City tonight to sew on both machines, bringing my own leather, thread, etc. I've decided that I am most likely bringing my Juki home with me. I'll post the outcome and again, thanks for all the input it helped a great deal in sorting out what to do. 

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, pattyharrington said:

I am heading to Bay City tonight to sew on both machines, bringing my own leather, thread, etc. I've decided that I am most likely bringing my Juki home with me. I'll post the outcome and again, thanks for all the input it helped a great deal in sorting out what to do. 

If you are going after the Juki LG158, watch this video so you know what you are getting into.

 

[dikman]

400 lbs weight! I like the foot operated reverse, neater than jamming a piece of wood on the lever.

[SARK9]

I'm seeing several spec sheets on the 30" 158 which list the machine's weight as 108kg...nowhere close to 400 lbs.

-DC

[pattyharrington]

I decided to stick with my Juki 241h instead of considering a trade. The tech ended up making several adjustments and reinstalling the old hook assembly that I had replaced.  I'm happy to report that it's running like a champ! I am going to lay off the 210 thread though, just to play it safe.