Finding True Top Center on Dog Collars

[Reegesc]

I have put off asking this question for months because it sounds so stupid simple, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.   Hoping one of you Gurus can set me straight on this.  Here's the deceptively simple question:

 

How do you find true top center on a dog collar, for tooling names or anything that requires accurate center placement?

 

Here's the problem that I keep running into.   Dog collars are not worn as belts are and therefore Saint Al's belt-centering formula does not work (Center Buckle + 1/2 Waist Size) or when it does it's just dumb luck.  A dog collar buckle  isn't naturally centered at true center bottom like belt buckles are centered in the front of the waist.  The true bottom of a collar is the center of gravity of the buckle assembly plus the weight of the leather on either side, in particular the Billet hanging off to one side,  IT seems to me that to find true top center as defined by a worn collar, the formula has to account for the weight  and the distribution of that weight.   And I just get lost at that point.  

 

 

 

Is there an easy way to figure this out without having to get out the graph paper and the gram scale?  I swear I screw it up every time just trying to eyeball it and I'm picky as hell and it drives me up a wall.  The thing is there's very little real estate on a dog collar to begin with and a half an inch either way stands out like a sore thumb.   

 

Help me Obi Wan...

[Mattsbagger]

Don't Gonzales has a short video on doing it on belt. I have no idea if that's the way Altenburg Stohlman does it. That's all I got. Sorry. Matt.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

This is a good question, and I have struggled with it myself.  On the last one I did, I assembled the collar (buckle and dee ring) before I did any stamping, and then buckled it into the hole that the measurement indicated it would be. Then I let the collar hang loosely from my hand and shook it around, so that gravity would hopefully center it like it would when on the dog.  Then I went from there. As it turned out, the owner tightened it up one hole from where I figured it would be adjusted (owner had also done the measuring), so it wasn't quite right anyway.  But owner and dog were delighted regardless.  And you are so very right, very little room to work with on a dog collar, and the smaller the dog, the worse it is!  I'd like to know if there is a formula as well, but in any case, the measurement has to be spot on or the formula will be off.

[Reegesc]

I wonder if water buoyancy would reveal true bottom center?  What I'm thinking is if you had a clear container and filled it with water, then lower the collar into the water and look at from the side, the lowest point should be true bottom center, right?   Then just straight up from there is true top center......theoritically.     Ya know, it's something you could do before dyeing and finishing..  I dunno....just  guessing at it.  Surely somebody has cracked this nut before.

 

[TomG]

Well, although I also like to be as accurate as possible, it honestly does not really matter. I do hundreds of collars. I use the exact method as shown in the image above and It comes out close enough.  I have never, ever had a customer say "great collar, but the name is 1/2" off center". 

Different buckles, different sizes, customer mismeasurements that cause different hole used (as pointed out by Big Sioux), and other factors beyond your control make, it almost impossible to be super accurate every time. But, if you insist on making it "dead nuts on", using Big Sioux's preassembly method is about the only practical method. It takes all factors in to account automatically... assuming the same hole is used.

Good luck

[Dwight]

Make yourself a long triangular shaped piece of wood with a flat on the top of it about 1/16 of an inch wide.

Get a flat piece of aluminum, . . . sheet metal, . . . plastic, . . . whatever, . . . about 2 inches wide, . . . and maybe 18 inches long.

Lay the collar down on the 2 inch wide piece, . . . center it so it is in the middle of the 2 inch wide piece, . . . then lay that on the triangle.  Move it back and forth until you find where it balances, . . . that is the "weight" center of the dog collar.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Reegesc]

TomG, you of course are right.  You're running a business and I'm running an ego.  Nevertheless this should have a simple answer.  And if not, then a hard answer.  I'll take either one.  :-)

 

Thanks for the perspective though.  

[Reegesc]

Hey Dwight, yeah I can see that working.  Going to give that a try.  Thanks a bunch man,

[TomG]

1 hour ago, cseeger said:

TomG, you of course are right.  You're running a business and I'm running an ego.  Nevertheless this should have a simple answer.  And if not, then a hard answer.  I'll take either one.  :-)

Haha..  I got the ego too , but I've just learned over time what's worth the extra effort.  I think that you are going to find that the "buckle it up and let it hang" method is going to be about the best "practical" method with the best accuracy.
I like Dwights idea, but not sure I'd have the patience to make all of that balance out.  Especially 5 or 10 times a day. 

 

[Dwight]

27 minutes ago, TomG said:

Haha..  I got the ego too , but I've just learned over time what's worth the extra effort.  I think that you are going to find that the "buckle it up and let it hang" method is going to be about the best "practical" method with the best accuracy.
I like Dwights idea, but not sure I'd have the patience to make all of that balance out.  Especially 5 or 10 times a day. 

 

Mark the ends of the aluminum 2 inch piece, . . . mark them in from the ends in 1 inch increments, . . . flop the collar down on it, . . . center it, . . . put it on the triangle, . . .  should be done in all of about 15 seconds.

I don't think I could buckle it, . . . find it's "point" and unbuckle it any quicker than that, . . . especially with 72 year old fingers that don't like to mind all the time.

May God bless,

Dwight

[bikermutt07]

Easy fix.

Assemble collar.

Hang it on a clothes line or closet rod.

Bounce/jiggle it a couple of times.

Whatever is on top, mark as the center.

TADAAAAAAA!!!

[Reegesc]

Ya know, I think you're right,  That would work too or at least should work. What's to prevent it from landing randomly ever now and then on a jiggle?  I suppose you can ascertain that by obsevering where it most often lands.   Yeah, I can't see any reason that wouldn't work.

 Cool, two solutions.  I've just about got my DYT Pro   toe type Model 1A Experimental finished.  Just need to plane 1/16" of the top and then give 'er a whirl.   It was super easy to make with scrap lumber plus I already have a like five jumbo straight edge rulers.  

 

Imagine, perfectly centered collars from here on out.  It's an amazing time to be alive for sure.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by cseeger

[Reegesc]

The DYT Pro performed as advertised.   Expirements confirmed that the DYT Pro  accurately and reliably finds the true center point weight  

 

Lab Results

========

A WIP Dog collar wth uniform weight was placed on the aluminum balance bar.  A stick pin was then pushed into the prediction position to compare with actual test results.  As shown in this photo the actual results were  identical to the  mathematical prediction.

 

ns. a

 

 

The second experiment involved adding a weight to the lab test collar, a tin of WOW!  Leather Dressing.   The tin, weighing 47 grams was placed on the left half of the balance bar.   Again a push pin was set in the position predicted by Scientists and ...YEP, the results are identical.   There's no doubt about it. The DYT Pro performs as advertised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Truly a triumph for Science today boys.     Special thanks to Science Contributor and Inventor of the patent pending  DYT Pro,  Mr. Dwight.  Thank you Sir.   Nicely done! 

 

EDIT:  I can also confirm that it only took a couple seconds to find the balance point in both cases.  Very efficient and very effective.  Excellent solution Dwight.  I need to send you a trophy or something.   This is great.  Thanks so much.

 

EDIT 2:  Tomorrow we'll test the Jiggler 007 from the friendly folks at BikerMutt.   The question that everyone's is pondering is "Can you really just jiggle to the middle?  The BikerMutt folks so you can.   Stay tuned and we will it to the test tomorrow.  Until then, goodnight everybody.    

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by cseeger

[bikermutt07]

Haha, I predict the jiggler 007 will at least take up less space.

[Sheilajeanne]

Something I'd like to add, as someone who owned and ran a dog boarding kennel for many years is that probably about 80% of dog owners have their dog's collar fastened much too loose. I'd find this out the hard way when I tried to take the dog back to the kennel, and it doesn't want to go, and it slips its collar right over its head...

Some breeds are worse for this than others (e.g. pugs) because the neck is large in relation to the body. 

There's a very good reason I never offered dog-walking services, and my preferred tool for moving dogs that don't want to follow me from Point A to Point B was a noose, not a leash!

[CaptQuirk]

First, you need to find TDC in the dog. With the dog on it's back, scratch it under the chin until legs one and three are extended up, and legs two and four are down...

[alpha2]

I delivered my first collar yesterday, attracted the dog to the back fence, put the collar on, realized I didn't make it quite long enough! I was devastated. Texted the neighbors and told them to check out Willis's new collar, they texted back that they tightened it up two holes and it fits perfect! Apparently, I know more about  making collars than fitting them.

Also, Willis was fine with his name placement, as he can't see it from where he is anyway.

Edited February 9, 2017 by alpha2

[wlg190861]

Everyone's theory is ok but the easiest way is to take a 16 penny nail, pound it in a stud, making sure it is level. Take your collar buckle it on a pvc round (Pvc like you use in city water mains} and hang on nail that will give you true TDC.  All that math is hard on the old mind an not nearly as accurate.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by wlg190861

[wlg190861]

22 hours ago, cseeger said:

I have put off asking this question for months because it sounds so stupid simple, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.   Hoping one of you Gurus can set me straight on this.  Here's the deceptively simple question:

 

How do you find true top center on a dog collar, for tooling names or anything that requires accurate center placement?

 

Here's the problem that I keep running into.   Dog collars are not worn as belts are and therefore Saint Al's belt-centering formula does not work (Center Buckle + 1/2 Waist Size) or when it does it's just dumb luck.  A dog collar buckle  isn't naturally centered at true center bottom like belt buckles are centered in the front of the waist.  The true bottom of a collar is the center of gravity of the buckle assembly plus the weight of the leather on either side, in particular the Billet hanging off to one side,  IT seems to me that to find true top center as defined by a worn collar, the formula has to account for the weight  and the distribution of that weight.   And I just get lost at that point.  

 

 

 

Is there an easy way to figure this out without having to get out the graph paper and the gram scale?  I swear I screw it up every time just trying to eyeball it and I'm picky as hell and it drives me up a wall.  The thing is there's very little real estate on a dog collar to begin with and a half an inch either way stands out like a sore thumb.   

 

Help me Obi Wan...

Everyone's theory is ok but the easiest way is to take a 16 penny nail, pound it in a stud, making sure it is level. Take your collar buckle it on a pvc round (Pvc like you use in city water mains} and hang on nail that will give you true TDC.  All that math is hard on the old mind an not nearly as accurate.