SCHMETZ NEEDLES

[Diyer]

I have just spent a long time trying to find out if Schmetz do a particular needle- a 794 s point in a 160 or 180 size. Their "system" of putting all the needle sizes under different "departments", according to industry type and material is maddening. The most useful folders they have are the "saddlers" one, and the "leather shoes and footwear" ones.I eventually realized that what I wanted was available by looking at US websites, which actually listed the size. Then I went back to looking at the lists.

Groz Beckert, on the other hand, do not have any sort of useable online needle size catalog- you have to be a dealer to have access to one,.Grrrr!!

[MADMAX22]

so your looking for a 23 or 24 size in schmetz 794 system? Most all the dealers should have those sizes. I have schmetz in those sizes ordered online. 23 is the smallest in 794 below that you have to get 7x3 I believe, others correct me if I am wrong. 

Here is a good chart http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADMAX22

[CowboyBob]

Yes,Madmax is correct the 794S smallest we can get is #160(#23).

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

 The only constant with needles is that it's next to impossible to designate every system designation, system cross references, needle point, size, finish (coating) and shank variety within a system.

 And boy have people tried over the years.

I wanted to share with everyone what an "S" point designation was from Schmetz, as I had no idea myself, and had to look it up in the book.  And I only have read books about needles and deal with them nearly on a daily basis.

On a related note, my understanding is that Schmetz is being bought out by Groz-Beckert, and have no idea how that is going to play out.  Not the first time Groz-Beckert made a move like that, but not with a name as prominent as Schmetz, for sure.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Uwe]

Groz Beckert (the green guys) published a brochure with a nice visual guide of industrial leather needles: http://thethreadexchange.com/downloads/gb014.pdf

Our friendly banner advertisers are just a click or a phone call away. But it doesn't hurt to know what you're looking for before you call and have price reference in mind. 

When you type "794S" into the search box at Universal Sewing, they show Schmetz needles (the blue guys) available in sizes from 130Nm-250Nm

The folks at Campell-Randall folks also list a range of sizes for Schmetz 794 S needles in size 160Nm-250Nm:

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Uwe

[JLSleather]

I never use "S" needles, or recommend them, and this is why.  Good to see "them" actually state it.

While the stitch is "straight", so is teh cut in the leather, and the tighter the stitch, and the closer the spacing, the more likely to fail.

Much  better to go with the "LL" point needles.

 

[Wizcrafts]

I use System 794 diamond/tri point needles when I sew closer than 6 stitches per inch on my Cowboy. I get them from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. The stitches lay inline like the S points, but are less likely to filigree the leather. Also, the exit wound is more rounded and it is easier to pull up the knots in very thick stacks of leather.

I used a #25 diamond point to sew a 7/8 inch thick holster last year. The S point was cutting the thread.

[Yetibelle]

Let's go to the charts - love the charts -

 

 

 

[HENDREFORGAN]

Speaking as one who is still utterly confounded by the "numbering system" used - I can understand the mechanics of these things just with the numbering system bore some resemblance to that - there is some truly great info given in answers . . thanks guys!