New Outlaw hand crank Boss clone

[Kaje]

Just saw this video posted on the clone of the tippmann boss, looks pretty interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abyd-qdmOlk

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaje

[GPG]

$1195.00 about 4 months wait time

[Darren Brosowski]

One has to wonder what the support will be like........

[Wizcrafts]

12 minutes ago, Darren Brosowski said:

One has to wonder what the support will be like........

I would pre-order some spare bearings and other cranks that Boss had problems with. I'm thinking that because they are using a cast iron frame and steel internals, operational and seasonal problems might be greatly reduced from what Boss owners experienced with aluminum frame models. Time will tell.

[Singermania]

HI Everyone, I understand from Cowboy Head Office that the machine is very different from the Boss, it incorporates Cowboy CB4500 and Cowboy CB205-370 parts.

I have found in the past that Cowboy have always stepped up to what was required, they will test this machine and it wont be available until they are satisfied.   We are Cowboy Leather Machines in Australia and previously if we asked Cowboy HO to source a machine for us and they have thought it not of sufficiently high quality they have advised that they would not be able to supply it, so I have great confidence in them.

Here in Australia we have the Tippmann being supplied by Tandy, we work amicably with them and so have decided not to run the Outlaw, instead we have put forward our CB3200 handcrank, this machine has compound feed, reverse and we supply it with a special foot and plate pack as well as a roller guide, we feel it is a fantastic alternative and still portable enough to take to shows.  We believe it to be a superior machine.

However, I understand that in the States lots of research has been undertaken on behalf of the Outlaw machine and that Cowboy in the USA are very excited about it and I believe it is going to be a great success for them.  best regards Steve Bonnett, Cowboy Leather Machines... Australia.

[Darren Brosowski]

Ah, this is the Cowboy machine!!!

In that case the product support will be as good as it gets.

 

[Studio-N]

the video is now gone.  I hope it IS different than the boss.  The evil empire tried to come out with a clone (the Stitch Bastard). they even had it in their catalog before being sued by Tippmann for patent infringement and won.

[Cascabel]

On 4/17/2017 at 10:54 AM, Wizcrafts said:

I would pre-order some spare bearings and other cranks that Boss had problems with. I'm thinking that because they are using a cast iron frame and steel internals, operational and seasonal problems might be greatly reduced from what Boss owners experienced with aluminum frame models. Time will tell.

I have always felt that some things should NOT be made of aluminum !!  It is not strong enough for some applications.

 

[JimTimber]

8 hours ago, Cascabel said:

I have always felt that some things should NOT be made of aluminum !!  It is not strong enough for some applications.

 

Kubota makes tractor rear ends (traditionally made of cast iron) out of aluminum.  Boeing makes airplanes out of aluminum.  Rock climbers trust their lives to aluminum all the time...

The design needs to account for the characteristics of the material it's to be made of.

[Dwight]

41 minutes ago, JimTimber said:

Kubota makes tractor rear ends (traditionally made of cast iron) out of aluminum.  Boeing makes airplanes out of aluminum.  Rock climbers trust their lives to aluminum all the time...

The design needs to account for the characteristics of the material it's to be made of.

Thanks, Jim Timber, . . . I have not the slightest inkling of the reason for the Tippmann Boss bashing I run across every now and then.  My machine is one of their aluminum machines, . . . been running it over 10 years, . . . and like any thing else, . . . I've had a couple of issues.  Nothing that could not be fixed, . . . and fixed darn quick, . . . by very competent people.

Tippmann is in my opinion, . . . based on 10 years of service, . . . one of the VERY BEST companies I've ever had to deal with.  The equipment is excellent, . . . warranty is good, . . . service is great, . . . and they have bent over backwards to help me the few times I've needed it.

My personal opinion is most likely the biggest detractors of the Boss, . . . probably would find fault with a ten pound brick of gold, . . . have very little mechanical ability, . . . and just like to gripe to hear their heads roar.

Rant off.

May God bless,

Dwight

[bikermutt07]

I would like to see an aerostitch clone.

[JimTimber]

I've seen the Boss first hand and there's nothing about that machine that needs cast iron for the body as long as wear surfaces were sleeved/inserted with a more durable material.  

 

Did they cheap out back in the day?  I can't comment on that.  I've never looked closely at them.

[Singermania]

I've been collecting and repairing machines for many years and have had numerous Boss's thru the workshop,  I find that the old cast iron Boss was quite good but all the same did require some mechanical ability above that normally required with other machines.  The action of the machine  contributes to its need for adjustment as being banged into end stops each stroke is hard on its settings.   Its not so much a matter of bearings as was mentioned its something else.

The newer machines despite what is said above have been problematical, it is rare to find owners that are happy with them, more often they are fed up and go and buy another machine of a different kind.   For similar money you can get compound feed, reverse, motor and a longer cylinder.

The recurring story I hear about the machines is that they get out of timing (somewhere), the owner sends them off for service, they come back and within a short time the fault is back again.  I've had similar experiences with them here on my bench, I reset them, they work great, I then give them a final test the next day before sending them back and they seem to be off the boil again.  It can be a very frustrating machine.  When the issue is corrected then I'm guessing it will be a different story.

 

[Darren Brosowski]

The Cowboy Outlaw is cast iron and I have disagree that aluminium is suitable for the frame

To keep the weight down the castings are relatively thin and when changing between cast iron and aluminium they did not thicken the casting to compensate for the difference in material properties. It only takes a tiny amount of flex in a sewing machine frame to cause problems. 

By basing the machine on a cast iron frame - as well as all the other modifications - the Outlaw will outperform the original Boss

[Singermania]

Yes Darren, Cowboy has poured heaps of money into the project, its not a complex machine so I'd be expecting a great result. 

[Deryk]

Since this post is several months old I decided to email CowBoy to see if they have any idea when it will be coming out.

[Deryk]

very surprised, got an email back from Ryan Neele the US guy

 

Hello:

Yes, the Outlaw will be a much improved version of the Boss.

It will have a longer arm, all cast iron construction, and will have a bigger hook and bobbin.

The machines should be here around the first week of March.

It should be a much better machine than other hand crank versions on the market.


Ryan
 

[Singermania]

In Australia we at Cowboy Leather Machines market two hand crank models, we have the CB2500HC and the CB3200HC at $1350 and $2600 respectively.   The former a basic drop feed machine ie driven by feed dog and the latter a compound feed machine.   We are keen to get our hands on the Outlaw as it will take our handcrank range to 3.   And of course a completely different style to the sewing machine based machines above.   The price in Australia should fit mid way between our two existing machines.  Below is the CB2500HC

[Deryk]

Very sharp looking!  Why aren't they being marketed in the US?  

[Singermania]

Hi Deryk,  don't know mate, its not rocket science we just drill and tap the handwheel and put an engineers steel handle on.    Its takes off the cost of the table, speed reducer and motor, however we still include all the feet, plates and roller guides.   People here like them cos they are a lot cheaper but also they can toss into the truck and take to shows and so on the spot repairs for income.   If you have a word with Ryan Neel or one of his dealers they'll probably make one.

[Deryk]

to be honest, when I saw the first picture of the CB2500 I thought it was handcranked. 

I for the next few years have only so much space for my "tools(Slowly renovating a cabin I want to retire to one day...so lots of power tools)"  and I don't want a big industrial sewing machine in my bedroom...the idea of portability, bolt it on my work bench when i want to do some leather work stuff, when done slip it into a case and slide it under the bench.  

[CowboyBob]

We had some inmates in Texas buy a couple of CB3200 that we put a knob on so they could handcrank them.They didn't have room for a stand.

Edited December 20, 2017 by CowboyBob

[Deryk]

Just out of curiosity, how much would a CB3200 head sell for with a knob for a handcrank go for?

[CowboyBob]

$1,395.00+ shpg.

[Gunnarsson]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎20 at 5:55 AM, Singermania said:

...The action of the machine  contributes to its need for adjustment as being banged into end stops each stroke is hard on its settings.   Its not so much a matter of bearings as was mentioned its something else.
...

The recurring story I hear about the machines is that they get out of timing (somewhere), the owner sends them off for service, they come back and within a short time the fault is back again...

 

Makes sense. Out of (mostly mechanical) interest, exactly what is it that stops the lever movement? If it is the more or less sensitive internals of the machine "after" the adjustable places so all that comes under shock load I wouldn't be suprised it will wreak havoc on the adjustments. Om the other hand, if there were adjustable stops more or less directly at the lever, stopping the movement just a hair before the rest of the machine says stop, the machine shouldn't have a problem working.