Beware of "semi-industrial" sewing machines

[Darren Brosowski]

This topic is raised every now and then and I thought it was time that it was revisited as I noticed this ad on eBay UK but there are plenty of these shonks in the USA and everywhere else.

Domestic sewing machines are not for leather! Yes they can sew a couple of layers of upholstery leather or even do what this advertiser has done but all you are getting is a $25 machine for $400. It won't feed properly, cannot handle anything more than #69 thread and it is going to crap itself very quickly

The term "semi industrial" is meaningless and I always ask people what "semi industry" they would use it in.

The advertised machine is a Singer 99k which absolutely the worst possible Singer vintage domestic straight sewer for leather.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Semi-Industrial-Singer-99k-Mk2-Sewing-Machine-Heavy-Duty-Leather-New-Motor/292011554953?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D43782%26meid%3Dcb77f3de8b45407589eedd77e6a51505%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D252912248287

 

[Bert51]

I think these must be the "RARE" machines I see listed on there?

 

[dikman]

Ah, but it's got a "new, powerful motor" .

Quite a write-up they gave it, easy to see how someone new to the game could get suckered in.

[mikesc]

That company is selling domestic machines ( both old singers and later plastic sewing machines from various manufacturers ) all over ebay and other similar sites , including their own website..always as "semi-industrial" or "heavy industrial"..their "speciality" is "pre owned".

Their phone number ( if you search just the number ) appears to be registered to the same business , but at multiple different addresses around the UK Midlands.

Maybe so as to be one jump ahead of the satisfied customers showing up with their "semi industrial machines" that broke when sewing into an eighth of an inch of veg tan.

[ATD]

I have several vintage singers. 

The singer 99k is a 3/4 size machine so the motor is not as powerful as it's big sister machine the 66k. There weren't as many of them made but they aren't that hard to find for cheap. I have read that you can put a more powerful motor on the 99k.

you have several options at this point depending on whether or not you want to make use of your machine or get a different one  

1.  Sell the machine. There are people like me who would pay a hefty sum to get their hands on one. Check what other ads have listed it for. 

2.  Do some research and see what motor other leather workers arw using.  I have read that you can use a more powerful aftermarket  motor with that machine. Make sure you get a motor that fits the connector  as there are variations between singer machines  make sure the motor you get also includes the pedal  

3. Throw it out your bedroom window and giggle with glee as it crashes to the ground (a sacrilege but it might make you feel better)

4.  Have you tried using it manually by turning the wheel?  5. I have a 15-90 which has a spoked wheel. The 15-90 is the same machine as the 15-88 and 15-89.  The variation is how it is operated (treadle, hand crank or motor).  My understanding is machines with a spoked wheel and motor can be converted to hand crank with the hand crank attachment.  The 15-90 I have is missing the motor.  I haven't ordered the crank attachment yet but I have used it by turning the wheel.  I think the crank enables smoother operation).  I got that machine for $15 (CAD) at auction.  I paid $60 CAD for my 99k which is considered a lot for this auction house.  I would have paid $150 simply because I love sewing machine and wanted to add it to my collection.  

5.  Get a full size singer.  I have found several articles detailing how to rewire the old motor (if necessary). 

6.  You can try a teflon rolling foot and lowering the feed dogs.  The teflon rolling foot won't stick to the leather. If you can't lower the feed dogs you can put tissue paper or even better use a couple of layers of water soluable Interfacing under your leather. This will help it glide better across the feed dogs. i think that model uses low shank pressed feet.  Any low shank should fit.  I got one for my industrial machine but haven't tried it yet  I got the foot for $7 on Amazon.  You can try the walking foot attachment as well. 

If you decide to go for another old Singer try to get one of the more popular models that they produced in great volumes so it will be easier and cheaper to find parts for it.  Check your area for estate sales and auctions.  the guy that goes to auction for me said they often go for $10-40.  I have become very quick on identifying old singers.  If you see an ad or find one at auction and aren't sure what model it is you can send me the pictures at andreatuckerdesigns@rogers.com  I can help with identification and if it is one you should buy or buy (or get for me).  Lol

****I am looking for a half size singer machine if anyone sees one for sale please let me know. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by ATD
Additional info

[ATD]

I like the old Singer machines because even at 80-90 years old they are better than newer digital machines. I have 16 machines and the ones that sew the best are the cast iron machines. Everything is solid and easier to fix than a plastic closed body machine. 

[ATD]

I bought a 29k and paid a fortune for it. the seller said it was in great working order and well maintained and the only reason he was selling it was because he couldn't get the hang of the treadle. My friends picked it up me. I should have known he was a liar when he ignored my repeated requests for video of the machine in operation and pictures showing the quality of stitching. The machine has never been cleaned and many parts fused together. It doesn't sew properly and I will ultimately have to take it apart and clean all the parts. 

Moral of the story: lots of people lie when money is involved.  

There are two types of machines -domestic and industrial. Period. If words are added to industrial it is a domestic machine. You have to consider what people are using the machine for. 99% of people don't try to sew leather. So they would say it is a powerful machine. 

 

***i appologse for adding so many comments. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by ATD

[mikesc]

Do some research and see what motor other leather workers arw using. I have read that you can use a more powerful aftermarket motor with that machine. Make sure you get a motor that fits the connector as there are variations between singer machines make sure the motor you get also includes the pedal

let me fix ( some of ) that for you..

"Do some research and see what machines* other professional leather workers** arw using."

this part "I have read that you can use a more powerful aftermarket motor with that machine. Make sure you get a motor that fits the connector as there are variations between singer machines make sure the motor you get also includes the pedal"
is irrelevant . as is all the rest ( it all relates to domestic machines ) ..if you want to sew leather professionally

* and ** ..Hint..they don't use domestic singers ( or domestic models from other manufacturers )..no matter what foot , crank, motor etc you or anyone else thinks will allow domestic machines ( even those made from cast iron ) to sew leather..unless of course the idea is to sew leather badly..

Edited May 13, 2017 by mikesc

[Colt W Knight]

I supped up a Singer 66 - upgraded the motor, pulley, and feet. Never would consistently sew leather. I could get it to sew leather, but I always had feed issues, skipped stitches or other issues. I tried like hell to make it work, and it just wasn't up to the task.

 

[Wizcrafts]

Domestic sewing machines are not leather sewing machines. They are cloth sewing machines that may or may not be physically able to sew limited thicknesses and densities of leather with thin thread and short needles. They have tiny motors that are not strong enough to penetrate 8 ounces of medium or hard density veg-tan on their own. The take-up cranks and levers are thin, as are the tension springs, as they are meant to only tension cotton or polyester thread, not the heavy bonded nylon leather stitchers use.

Getting a domestic machine to sew thin leather (up to 1/8") is not a big challenge; I've done it. But, try sewing a double 8-9 oz holster on one and you'll see what I am talking about. This is the domain of real, heavy duty leather and harness stitching machines. We deal with thread sizes #92 and UP. Domestic machines use #69 and DOWN. Most of us sew with #207, 277 and 346 bonded nylon thread for the added strength to keep a holster from ripping apart from the internal pressure of the gun. A typical holster will often have thicknesses exceeding 1/4 inch, with some over 3/4 inch. These should not be sewn on domestic sewing machines sold at antique shops and yard sales.

[480volt]

Any consumer with the extremely modest internet savvy to be reached by deceptive, or even predatory, online vendors has the skill set necessary to do a google search. If anyone reading this saw a posting on craigs for a machine they had never heard of, of course they would search it. If you simply search "leather sewing machine", one of the top hits is going to be Wiz's comprehensive post regarding this very topic. Anyone unwilling to do a little basic research prior to buying is in for a long, bumpy road in this craft, likely resulting in a box of Tandy entry-level tools for sale on Craigslist. They should roll up their copy of the enquirer and hit themselves on the back of the hand anytime they mouse towards the "buy" button.

Or something like that. Rant over.

[gottaknow]

I make a living getting industrial machines to do things at high speed and often things they weren't intended to do. Home machines make decent door stops. 

Regards, Eric