Help Concoct a Leather Conditioner Recipe

[cjartist]

I have just been reading the many threads here regarding a leather conditioner recipe as I want to create my own.  A widely used one here seems to be a mix of neatsfoot oil and beeswax.  I have come up with a list of possible ingredients and would love to hear the pros and cons of each as some seem to be very controvesial.

Beeswax
Lanolin
neatsfoot oil
Tallow
Carnauba wax
turpentine
cod liver oil
Vitamin e
eucalyptus oil
tea tree oil

Then to further complicate things (or just for some interesting reading) I came upon this article from the National Park Service

Leather Dressing: To Dress or Not to Dress

Would love to hear your comments.  I have found a local source for beeswax.  As of this moment that is the only ingredient I am 100% sure that I will be using.

[billybopp]

I would probably avoid turpentine, it's pretty harsh.  I've also been told to avoid lanolin, although not sure why.  Tallow and cod liver oil are very old items to use, I gather but haven't tried.  I've used eucalyptus in small amounts, it's supposed to be a preservative and just plain smells nice.  I'd guess tea tree oil is about the same.  I've experimented a little with carnauba, and so far I've found that it is pretty hard and doesn't melt in like beeswax does.  I want to try a little carnauba mixed in with beeswax/neetsfoot to harden it up a little bit.  What I've mostly used to date is beeswax/neetsfoot with a few drops of eucalyptus.

Bill

[cjartist]

5 minutes ago, billybopp said:

I've experimented a little with carnauba, and so far I've found that it is pretty hard and doesn't melt in like beeswax does.  I want to try a little carnauba mixed in with beeswax/neetsfoot to harden it up a little bit.  What I've mostly used to date is beeswax/neetsfoot with a few drops of eucalyptus.

That is the way I am leaning myself right now, beeswax + carnauba + neatsfoot and perhaps vitamin e or eucalytptus to minimize any decaying properties.  The carnauba is supposed to add some shine.  I was curious about turpentine mostly as a carrier to help penetrate.  Seems it is made from trees?  Whatever I choose, I want it to be natural ingredients.

[johnv474]

Look up British Museum Leather Dressing.  That's a good one, I understand.

[cjartist]

5 minutes ago, johnv474 said:

Look up British Museum Leather Dressing.  That's a good one, I understand.

I did try to research that before and landed on the NPS article I linked above and got distracted.  I just looked again and found this:

• Anhydrous lanolin 7 oz.
• Ceadrwood oil 1 fl oz.
• Beeswax ½ oz
• Hexane 11 fl oz.

Hexane seems to be a petroleum product.  Plus the ratio of lanolin to beeswwax of 14:1 would make that extremely expensive IMO.

[YinTx]

Also, just fyi, a lot of people are allergic to turpentine.

Using petroleum products such as hexane might cause health hazards, especially if people are applying bare handed.  A lot of the other ingredients might be found in hand lotion, so would translate well to those not using gloves - ie any one putting product on their own leather goods that they are using at home.

Just my $0.02, free, so worth only the price of admission.

YinTx

[cjartist]

2 hours ago, YinTx said:

Also, just fyi, a lot of people are allergic to turpentine.

I did not know that.  Good.  That is just the type of info I am looking for. Thanks.

[fredk]

Are you buying the bees' wax sort of 'off the shelf'? or direct from a beekeeper?

If direct from a beekeeper ask for cappings wax; its purer and cleaner

I'd avoid cod liver oil; even the best that I know of still smells fishy - I wouldn't like a leather product smelling of fish

[cjartist]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

I'd avoid cod liver oil; even the best that I know of still smells fishy - I wouldn't like a leather product smelling of fish

Ha ha ... good point.  Thanks.  Yes I am going through a beekeeper.  I will ask.

[NVLeatherWorx]

You want to stay away from any oil that is obtained from any item within the traditional food chain (fish, etc.), anything that is petroleum based/engineered from multiple chemicals, and plant based oils are for aroma therapy type products only.  This leaves you with Neatsfoot Oil (but it must be pure, NO compounds as they are chemical heavy), Carnauba, beeswax, and tallow (but that isn't typically used as a conditioner).  If you want the best properties, from the most natural products then you stick with the NFO and beeswax combination and leave the rest behind.  Adding an already modified ingredient (Carnauba) you are tampering with the positive results from the base mixture of NFO and beeswax; it doesn't bring anything to the party that isn't already there and tends to limit the effect that you may desire.  If you want to make a firmer version of the NFO/beeswax blend just use more wax/less NFO, it is really that simple. 

And for anyone who thinks beeswax just "melts away", only if you make it do it.  I have been using my blend for about a year now and have never had it just "melt away" or melt into the leather (unless I apply direct heat from a hair dryer) and it doesn't just wear off either.  It is like every other wax based conditioner (Carnauba included), if you apply it correctly, AND THEN LET IT CURE FOR AT LEAST 12 HOURS, you will find that the finish has a long lasting effect; get impatient and try and rush the process and you will get marginal (at best) results.  Our trade is based on patience and this is how you achieve quality results when working the leather and/or finishing it.

I do recommend that you get your beeswax from an actual beekeeper and make sure that it has been filtered for purity, it makes a big difference.  Don't fall for that term of "organic" though as it is very abused within the beekeeper community.  The reality is that for anything that a bee produces to be "organic" the pollen that it collects to create the range of end products MUST come from the very land on which the source beehive is located; it CAN NOT cross property boundary for any reason.  This is based on the actual certification processes of the government; unless you have invisible walls and can prevent a bee from leaving your yard there is no way that you can use the term organic when it comes to bees and their products.

[alpha2]

My "new" beekeeper is my brother and sister in law. Their beeswax is a thing of beauty...at least compared to the tandy "stuff". As far as vitamin E is concerned...well, let me just say that I'm not ingesting the stuff, just applying it to leather. BTW, the leather seems to like it!

Edited May 25, 2017 by alpha2

[cjartist]

I have been using Belvoir Leather Balsam.  The jar is just about empty and that is the reason I am considering making my own.  That stuff has lanolin and beeswax and who knows what else.  It smells pretty potent of lanolin (I think).  Every commercially available product uses some form of chemicals.  What I don't know is the reason ... is it for penetration and drying, or to keep it from going rancid?

What I really want is something that is good for the leather, easy to apply, and gives it a shine with simple hand buffing.  I also don't want to have to heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun.

Does the simple neatsfoot and beeswax melt meet these criteria?

[YinTx]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

I'd avoid cod liver oil; even the best that I know of still smells fishy - I wouldn't like a leather product smelling of fish

Kinda like Segdwick's leather has a bit of that smell 'o fish...

I had heard that beeswax keeps leather from "breathing" by creating a bit of a seal, and thus it can not absorb moisture, and thus dries out faster than if it did not have beeswax coating.  Anyone know if this is so or not?

YinTx

[cjartist]

51 minutes ago, YinTx said:

 Anyone know if this is so or not?

Did you read the article I linked to in the first post?  Funny how they determined that leather will survive just fine without any treatment whatsoever.

[YinTx]

Quite the interesting article.  It would appear that most of the leather dressings might be detrimental long term, as I had mentioned I had read elsewhere.  But the effect on the feel and smell of the leather is not mentioned, which I think is a pretty important topic for the buyer...I tend to think most of what I make is destined to be used and abused, not stored in a museum, and I have to attract a buyer first!  Veg tan leather looks pretty dull with just a dye finish, the dressings bring out the beauty..

YinTx

[fredk]

Different rules in the EU for bee products to be 'organic'. The hive has to be 5 kilometers from any major road thoroughfare. Impossible to do in Northern Ireland

Bees will fly up to 3.5 miles to collect nectar to make honey and pollen for food. Pollen is pure protein. Nectar is sugars. Bees process the nectar in a honey stomach to turn it into a thick pure sugar solution. Then some chosen worker bees are fed honey by their sisters and these bees turn the consumed honey into wax. It takes 5 to 7 pounds weight to make one pound of wax

Because of recent infections and pests beekeepers feed their bees antibiotics and other chemicals - during the winter, when there is no honey collection going on, so that these medicines do not enter the human food chain. However these chemicals remain in the wax as we are not supposed, or expected, to eat that - but many people do

Ask your beekeeper what chemicals/medicines he/she/they use. Normal use is usually low amounts, too much is very bad

BTW; I use my own beeswax from when I was a beekeeper. I still have several pounds of it.

 

[cjartist]

6 hours ago, YinTx said:

It would appear that most of the leather dressings might be detrimental long term, as I had mentioned I had read elsewhere.  But the effect on the feel and smell of the leather is not mentioned, which I think is a pretty important topic for the buyer...I tend to think most of what I make is destined to be used and abused, not stored in a museum, and I have to attract a buyer first!  Veg tan leather looks pretty dull with just a dye finish, the dressings bring out the beauty..

I agree.  The benefits do outweigh the risks.  On your previous comment about breath-ability, resolene or super sheen would have the same effect of sealing the leather and therefore drying it out.  Since we generally don't seal the flesh side, this may not be an issue.  Wood has the same potential problem.  Wood that is used out in the weather is usually also only sealed on three sides (picnic tables, decks, etc.).

[Rockoboy]

I have read somewhere previously (but I cannot remember where) that the main thing to remember when thinking about preserving leather is " when leather is tanned, what does it lose? It loses fats, not oils"

By this information, one would assume that using neatsfoot oil might not be the best thing to preserve, protect or rejuvenate leather.

The best thing would be the fats which were removed in tanning and which may continue to be lost to the atmosphere as the leather continues to dry out and degrade with the passing of time.

On the other hand, maybe using neatsfoot oil, beeswax, carnauba etc might do some good, but not as good as the best coating, sealing, rejuvenating option available.

Personally, I have no idea, these are just an idea of something that I read, that seemed to make some sense to me. Comments, ideas?

I just found the thread discussing the use of fats (tallow or similar) to preserve leather. "Using Tallow To Condition Leather."

Edited May 27, 2017 by Rockoboy
more information came to hand after posting

[cjartist]

Yes, it seems that folks here swear that neatsfoot oil is the conditioner that has always been used.  Yet I think across the pond, in the UK, they use more tallow.  That is precisely why that is in the list.  Some suggest that tallow will go rancid.  Will vitamin e or eucalyptus be enough to prevent or slow that process?  I don't know.

At this point, I am thinking that the recipe will look something like

50% NFO, 25% beeswax, 20% tallow, 5% carnauba, and a few drops of vitamin e

Still open for debate and suggestions

[fredk]

my soft wax is sort of about 45% NFO, 45% beeswax, 10% olive oil

My hard wax is roughly the same but about 10% carnuba added

I don't measure precisely, its, umm, sort of dumped into a bowl, warmed up and mixed

[cjartist]

26 minutes ago, fredk said:

my soft wax is sort of about 45% NFO, 45% beeswax, 10% olive oil

My hard wax is roughly the same but about 10% carnuba added

I don't measure precisely, its, umm, sort of dumped into a bowl, warmed up and mixed

Cool.  You use the carnauba for hardness? Or is it just harder in the container?

[fredk]

Carnuba adds hardness to any wax mixture. Too much can make the finish brittle and flakey when it has dried. Car waxes have a large amount of carnuba in them but car bodies ain't supposed to bend or flex like a belt or a tote-bag

edited to answer one of your other questions; I use my soft wax on the flesh side of belts. It soaks right in and just a little buffing with a polishing brush gives it a modest shine and smoothness. On the outside of belts and bags I apply resolene first then my hard wax. It takes a bit more effort to buff up using a scrap of linen, denim or a stiff polishing brush. The heat generated by the buffing in both is enough to melt the mix into the leather. I've never yet used a heat scource on them on applying to the leather. Just in winter I need to warm the hard mix to soften it enough to use.

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by fredk

[NVLeatherWorx]

22 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

I have read somewhere previously (but I cannot remember where) that the main thing to remember when thinking about preserving leather is " when leather is tanned, what does it lose? It loses fats, not oils"

By this information, one would assume that using neatsfoot oil might not be the best thing to preserve, protect or rejuvenate leather.

The best thing would be the fats which were removed in tanning and which may continue to be lost to the atmosphere as the leather continues to dry out and degrade with the passing of time.

On the other hand, maybe using neatsfoot oil, beeswax, carnauba etc might do some good, but not as good as the best coating, sealing, rejuvenating option available.

Personally, I have no idea, these are just an idea of something that I read, that seemed to make some sense to me. Comments, ideas?

I just found the thread discussing the use of fats (tallow or similar) to preserve leather. "Using Tallow To Condition Leather."

Neatsfoot oil is a byproduct from the cow and is a natural oil that is of that animal.  Using Neatsfoot oil cannot be compared to the use of other, non-organic (as in from that species) conditioners/oils/waxes.  The reality is that Neatsfoot Oil is technically a fat (ever notice what collects in the bottom of the bottle if you let it sit for awhile, it is fat).  The addition of beeswax, another natural ingredient, gives you the ability to seal the leather and protect it from moisture and other harsh elements (that is why beeswax is commonly used in the finer lip protection sticks and other such cosmetic items).  These two ingredients are actually better for leather than what most people are using and also last many times longer.

[cjartist]

Today's the day.  I went to Walmart yesterday and was going to get some vitamin E, but found tea tree oil.  So here is the mix I will make today:

• 45% Beeswax
• 50% Neatsfoot Oil
• 4% Carnauba Wax
• 1 Tbsp Tea Tree Oil

I will update this thread with the results.

 

[Dunluce]

I have done a few bits of playing about with different recipes and one of the problems I had was the amount of beeswax used in most. It seems to me that it prevented the the lotion being absorbed into the leather. What I am using at present is the following (remember this is parts not percentage)

10 parts beef fat 

5 parts lard

5 parts lanolin

0.5 parts beeswax.

i also added a few drops of citronella essential oil. I read that it has anti-septic properties and it also makes the conditioner smell really nice!

i have used it on quite a few items and it is readily absorbed and it has been in a jar in a cupboard for quite a few months without any sign of going off