Members caitobrien519 Posted June 26, 2017 Members Report Posted June 26, 2017 Hello! I am just starting out, and for my first project, I am trying to make an underbust corset with a crescent moon and star design (Mord Sith cosplay from the Sword of Truth series). I attempted the basic design on a scrap piece of 4/5 oz veg tanned, but I have not purchased any figure carving tools yet, so I attempted using my set of modeling tools to tool it with very poor results. With that being said, are there some basic figure carving tools that I should invest in which will be useful in many different projects? I am thinking of getting a midsized pear shader (P217 Craftool Pear Shader Stamp) and a square shaped beveler (B200 Craftool Beveler Stamp). Also, the main body of the underbust will be oxblood red. I have Fiebing's Leather Dye in Oxblood for that. The moon and star need to be yellow- I have the EcoFlo Cova Color in yellow. My question- should I dye it all with the oxblood so I don't get weird streaks from trying to work around, and then do several coats of the yellow over that? Or should I avoid dying an area that needs to be painted? I have attached photos of the inspiration for my costume as well as my first attempt at the moon and star design. I know I need a lot of practice on scrap Quote
Members Grumpymann Posted June 26, 2017 Members Report Posted June 26, 2017 You will need a backgrounder as well. I have been looking for the same answers as you about dyeing and painting. From my research so far it looks like dye let DRY completely (About 24 Hrs.) Then paint in successive colors of thinned acrylic paint till desired color, then LET DRY completely. Condition and LET DRY COMPLETELY, (Round about then I started to see a pattern) and finish. And guess what before the final buff? Were I you I would get an eyelet set as well if you don't have one. Quote
Northmount Posted June 27, 2017 Report Posted June 27, 2017 Figure carving tools/stamps are a sub-set of all the stamps. What you are looking for is the main stamps used for most floral carving to do the moon and star. A medium to small beveller, might want to get both a smooth and checkered style. Looks like you need a swivel knife, or need to get yours sharpened and make sure you are casing the leather correctly. For floral carvings, add pear shader, (checkered, smooth, and vertical lines are all nice to have). A camouflage stamp, veiner, and a couple versions of background stamps. And the list just continues to go on and on. But you can do a lot with about 5 stamps. Tom Quote
Members DJole Posted June 27, 2017 Members Report Posted June 27, 2017 Very many people on this board dislike the Eco-flo (water-based) dyes. Those water-based dyes don't hold their color like the spirit dyes do. You should definitely use your tooling test scraps to also test dyes. I wonder if perhaps you wouldn't rather use yellow acrylic paint instead of yellow dye, to get a brighter yellow? Quote
Members Mattsbagger Posted June 27, 2017 Members Report Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Oxblood ends up pink for me. I would look at Mahagony to get closer to the color you're looking for. Get the Fiebings pro dyes 4.oz bottle $5. And run some tests and practice. IMO Edited June 27, 2017 by Mattsbagger Grammar Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 27, 2017 Thank you everyone! I am attaching a photo of the supplies I have so far. I did end up buying the B200 beveller (smooth). On 6/27/2017 at 1:34 AM, northmount said: Figure carving tools/stamps are a sub-set of all the stamps. What you are looking for is the main stamps used for most floral carving to do the moon and star. A medium to small beveller, might want to get both a smooth and checkered style. Looks like you need a swivel knife, or need to get yours sharpened and make sure you are casing the leather correctly. For floral carvings, add pear shader, (checkered, smooth, and vertical lines are all nice to have). A camouflage stamp, veiner, and a couple versions of background stamps. And the list just continues to go on and on. But you can do a lot with about 5 stamps. Tom Expand I have a swivel knife but I think I need a lot more practice making nice clean cuts. I have sharpened it on 600 grit sandpaper and I have stropped it with white jeweler's rouge on the rough side of some scrap leather. So far, I feel like the leather on either side of the cut kind of bunches up when I'm making the cut, then really bunches up when I start using the beveller. I am guessing this is because my leather is too wet, does this sound right? I am also having a hard time getting the beveller to move at a steady pace and to hold the swivel knife line. I think part of that may be that I might not be cutting deeply enough. On 6/27/2017 at 6:54 AM, DJole said: Very many people on this board dislike the Eco-flo (water-based) dyes. Those water-based dyes don't hold their color like the spirit dyes do. You should definitely use your tooling test scraps to also test dyes. I wonder if perhaps you wouldn't rather use yellow acrylic paint instead of yellow dye, to get a brighter yellow? Expand I thought that the Cova Color was an acrylic paint- it is water based, though. Are there spirit based acrylic paints that I would have better luck using? On 6/27/2017 at 11:44 AM, Mattsbagger said: Oxblood ends up pink for me. I would look at Mahagony to get closer to the color you're looking for. Get the Fiebings pro dyes 4.oz bottle $5. And run some tests and practice. IMO Expand Thanks for the heads up with the oxblood! I had purchased a 2nd bottle of it at Tandy yesterday- looks like I should exchange it for the Mahagony! I will certainly practice on some scrap first. If neither color is quite right, should I mix the dyes, or do a coat of one and then a coat of the other? On 6/26/2017 at 2:58 PM, Grumpymann said: You will need a backgrounder as well. I have been looking for the same answers as you about dyeing and painting. From my research so far it looks like dye let DRY completely (About 24 Hrs.) Then paint in successive colors of thinned acrylic paint till desired color, then LET DRY completely. Condition and LET DRY COMPLETELY, (Round about then I started to see a pattern) and finish. And guess what before the final buff? Were I you I would get an eyelet set as well if you don't have one. Expand I do have an eyelet set! I also got a set of speed hooks before I realized how hard they would be to set without some pretty specialized equipment. I'm going to check the forums here to see if someone has a good solution on how to set those, otherwise I may ask my local cobbler if he would set them for me once I get all the holes punched. I really appreciate all the input! Caitlin Quote
Members Mattsbagger Posted June 27, 2017 Members Report Posted June 27, 2017 Top is oxblood bottom 2 are Mahagony. Definitely practice and experiment. Quote
Members Sofaspud Posted June 28, 2017 Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 One more suggestion - you might want to consider a star stamp. There are several sizes available at your local Tandy's. Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 Wow, that is quite a difference! Very nice work on those! Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 12:07 AM, Sofaspud said: One more suggestion - you might want to consider a star stamp. There are several sizes available at your local Tandy's. Expand Haha I know it's that bad!!!! I had assumed that the stamps would be too small, I wanted a star about an inch across on the actual piece, but I have not actually looked on the Tandy site. It would probably be a wise idea. Now if only they had a 4 inch crescent moon.... Quote
Members Sofaspud Posted June 28, 2017 Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 I have had trouble drawing stars since kindergarten. I just bought a star stamp that is close to an inch in diameter to do a Texas flag. (I will take all the help I can get.) The only suggestion I have for the moon is the trie and true one: practice, practice, practice. Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 I tried again last night and tonight, and I feel like I'm making some progress. The larger star was easier for me to manage with the swivel knife. I also made sure my cuts were deeper, and it was easier for me to bevel the sides of the stars. I really lost control of the swivel knife a few times when carving the moon last night, so it did not bevel as nicely as I had hoped. I feel like I'm not getting much of a burnished look when I am beveling. Do I need to hit the beveller with more force? I am using a wooden board as my tooling surface now since I don't have a marble or granite slab- is the hardness of the tooling surface that essential? Quote
Members DJole Posted June 28, 2017 Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 2:49 AM, caitobrien519 said: I tried again last night and tonight, and I feel like I'm making some progress. The larger star was easier for me to manage with the swivel knife. I also made sure my cuts were deeper, and it was easier for me to bevel the sides of the stars. I really lost control of the swivel knife a few times when carving the moon last night, so it did not bevel as nicely as I had hoped. I feel like I'm not getting much of a burnished look when I am beveling. Do I need to hit the beveller with more force? I am using a wooden board as my tooling surface now since I don't have a marble or granite slab- is the hardness of the tooling surface that essential? Expand Looking at the bottom right star, I think you are holding your bevel at too sharp of an angle. It looks like you are just widening the cut line, with not much of a bevel. Instead, the beveling tool should be flatter, so it creates a more gradual slope away from the cut, giving the star a "raised" appearance. If you have a modeling spoon, you can smooth those cut edges, and you can use it to smooth the beveled surface as well. Quote
Members DJole Posted June 28, 2017 Members Report Posted June 28, 2017 On 6/27/2017 at 8:55 PM, caitobrien519 said: Thank you everyone! I am attaching a photo of the supplies I have so far. I did end up buying the B200 beveller (smooth). I have a swivel knife but I think I need a lot more practice making nice clean cuts. I have sharpened it on 600 grit sandpaper and I have stropped it with white jeweler's rouge on the rough side of some scrap leather. So far, I feel like the leather on either side of the cut kind of bunches up when I'm making the cut, then really bunches up when I start using the beveller. I am guessing this is because my leather is too wet, does this sound right? I am also having a hard time getting the beveller to move at a steady pace and to hold the swivel knife line. I think part of that may be that I might not be cutting deeply enough. I thought that the Cova Color was an acrylic paint- it is water based, though. Are there spirit based acrylic paints that I would have better luck using? Expand Yes, you are right -- your leather may indeed have been too wet when you tried to use the beveller on it. There are a lot of threads on this forum about casing leather and figuring out when it's right for tooling. You should experiment with different cut depths, depending on the thickness (the weight) of the leather and the design, to see what works best. Cova color is an acrylic paint, which is water based. What you were talking about earlier is a water based dye (the Eco-Flo yellow). A dye permeates the material underneath its surface. The water or alcohol or oil (depending on the dye type) seeps into the leather, and then the liquid evaporates, leaving the pigment behind, below the surface of the leather, where it can't rub off. Paint merely adheres to the surface of the leather. When acrylic paint is applied, the water evaporates, leaving the plastic pigment on the surface of the leather, where it can be rubbed off over time. So to answer your question, acrylic paint is water based, and coats the surface of your leather. You put a few coats of paint on the leather (letting them dry in between) until you get the color strength you want, and then you use some sort of finish to protect the paint. Cova acrylic should work just fine. And if it rubs off over time, you can re-paint it. Quote
Northmount Posted June 28, 2017 Report Posted June 28, 2017 Looks like your casing is improving. Too wet and the leather is mushy. The swivel knife drags. Stamping gets sort of blob like instead of burnishing and turning a deeper brown. You need a hard surface behind your leather while you are stamping. When I started 55 years ago, I had no option of getting a piece of granite or marble. I used 1/4" Masonite hardboard on a solid table with pipe frame and legs. For up to 8/9 oz leather it worked okay. Wood itself, depending on species is not likely hard enough. Some proponents of sharpening your swivel knife will tell you that you should strop on a hard surface rather than the backside of leather, since the leather deforms and tends to round over the sharp edge you are trying for. I use a piece of 3/4" MDF. Have one for red rouge and one for white stropping compound. I use a diamond sharpening plate labeled as extra fine if I need to remove any scratches from rougher stones or whatever, then of course follow that with red, then white stropping. Whether you use paints or dyes, make sure you allow adequate time for drying between coats. Also before applying any finish or layers of finish. No less than 4 hours, some behave better at 8 hours. When using dye, I sometimes dampen the leather slightly first as it helps stop the dye from suddenly seeping beyond the brush. Tom Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 29, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) On 6/27/2017 at 11:55 PM, Mattsbagger said: Top is oxblood bottom 2 are Mahagony. Definitely practice and experiment. Expand I ordered a couple of other Fiebing's dyes- I got Mahogany and Burgundy. I am using a Lycra bodysuit rather than trying to craft one of those out of leather, and the Lycra is a brighter red than the catsuit used in the show, so I am thinking that a blend of 2 or more of the Oxblood, Burgundy, and Mahogany may be the way to go. The color does not need to match the body suit exactly, but I think it will look better if it's closer to that color. I will certainly test out the colors on some scrap as you and DJole suggested, and I'll also test the Cova Color over the dye after giving the dye time to dry completely. Northmount, I was not sure what MDF was, so I googled it, and realized that's what I am currently using as my tooling surface! I found a granite company in the area and hope to get a piece tomorrow, so I can repurpose that MDF as my stropping surface. Thanks for the tip! Edited June 29, 2017 by caitobrien519 Additional info Quote
Members Mattsbagger Posted June 29, 2017 Members Report Posted June 29, 2017 Countertop places have cutouts for sinks for little to nothing. At Habitat for Humanity they usually have them too. Got a 12X18 for $2.00. Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted June 29, 2017 Author Members Report Posted June 29, 2017 Awesome! There is a Habitat for Humanity ReStore close to me- I will give that a try if the granite place tries to price gouge me! Quote
Members caitobrien519 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Members Report Posted July 4, 2017 I got a nice slab of granite for FREEEEEE from a local granite shop! (Design Works in Sarasota for anyone in this area!) I am experimenting with mixing colors to match my bodysuit. On this test piece, Oxblood is on the widest end, Burgundy in the middle, and a mix of 2 part (2ml) Oxblood to 1 part (1 ml) Burgundy on the pointy end. I am pretty happy with how closely this mix matches the more blood-red color of the body suit. Quote
Members kiwican Posted July 4, 2017 Members Report Posted July 4, 2017 Seems like things are progressing well. Keep going! Quote
Members retiredff Posted September 11, 2017 Members Report Posted September 11, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 12:12 AM, caitobrien519 said: Haha I know it's that bad!!!! I had assumed that the stamps would be too small, I wanted a star about an inch across on the actual piece, but I have not actually looked on the Tandy site. It would probably be a wise idea. Now if only they had a 4 inch crescent moon.... Expand Look here; http://www.lasered-stamps.com/home.html he posts here frequently. If he doesn't have in stock what u need he can make it and his prices are reasonable. Tony Quote
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