Singer 241 bad stitches

[Sledzep01]

Just threaded up my machine for the first time. 92 bonded nylon.

#20?? needles?

I keep breaking thread even if the tensioner is rattling loose. there are 3 holes on the machine I have used all 3 every way I could and switched to only two...

Discovered that it is never tight before the tightener.

The thread was seeming to pull easily, it certainly pulls easily from the bobbin. I have followed all directions, and tried 3 diff bobbins

The machine thread keeps breaking leaving me with the mess below.

The darker leather is the bottom bobbin side

what needs adjusting?? Heeeeeellllllpppppp

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

If those thread loops are the bobbin thread coming out the top, increase the bobbin tension. If that is the top thread coming out on the bottom, increase the top tension.

Also, I recommend downsizing to #69 thread, top and bobbin, with a #18 needle.

[Sledzep01]

7 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

If those thread loops are the bobbin thread coming out the top, increase the bobbin tension. If that is the top thread coming out on the bottom, increase the top tension.

Also, I recommend downsizing to #69 thread, top and bobbin, with a #18 needle.

Really? I trust you and will do it, it just seems so tight through there already. Maybe the thread is stronger than I think.

Also, if you look at the bottom/brown side you can see that the feed dogs are leaving marks on the leather, Does that mean that there is too much pressure and I should back it off??

[Uwe]

There may be more than one thing wrong. Bottom loops have two major causes in my experience: loss of top thread tension, or top thread snagging/catching somewhere during the stitch cycle.  

I highly doubt the bobbin tension is causing this. It's much more likely in my mind that your bottom loops are forming because your top thread tension goes missing entirely for some reason. Check to make sure your tension release mechanism is working properly. 

I was working on a Pfaff 145 yesterday that occasionally had loops at the bottom. On my machine, the culprit turned out to be a thread tension release mechanism that occasionally got stuck in the "release" position after lifting the feet to make a turn.

Your upper thread tension discs should definitely NOT be "wiggly" loose when you sew. Please post some pictures of your full upper thread path (spool to needle) and maybe a video snippet or two of your machine sewing (it may take two people to do that.)

Here's a picture of what my bottom stitch looked like - note the loops right after a corner, with perfect stitches elsewhere. 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Uwe

[CowboyBob]

Yes,too loose upper thread will do this,so will the bobbincase position bracket if it isn't adjusted to allow the thread to pass(this is the part that keeps the inner hook basket from turning) take the needle plate off & turn it by hand with #92 in the needle & see if it catches as it goes past the little finger.If it catches,loosen the screw on it & adj it away from the hook alittle or sometimes you just have to bend it,a little @ a time to get it right.

[Sledzep01]

55 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

you just have to bend it,a little @ a time to get it right.

Your a Pro Bob, don't you mean "Reform it"   BadumpBump! Tsch!

 

I will check all of this, thanx guys

[Sledzep01]

2 hours ago, Uwe said:

There may be more than one thing wrong. Bottom loops have two major causes in my experience: loss of top thread tension, or top thread snagging/catching somewhere during the stitch cycle.  

I highly doubt the bobbin tension is causing this. It's much more likely in my mind that your bottom loops are forming because your top thread tension goes missing entirely for some reason. Check to make sure your tension release mechanism is working properly. 

I was working on a Pfaff 145 yesterday that occasionally had loops at the bottom. On my machine, the culprit turned out to be a thread tension release mechanism that occasionally got stuck in the "release" position after lifting the feet to make a turn.

Your upper thread tension discs should definitely NOT be "wiggly" loose when you sew. Please post some pictures of your full upper thread path (spool to needle) and maybe a video snippet or two of your machine sewing (it may take two people to do that.)

Here's a picture of what my bottom stitch looked like - note the loops right after a corner, with perfect stitches elsewhere. 

 

No matter how tight I made them they wiggled. I am sure they are together right, it's as if a washer was missing or something. the thread was literally running on the shaft.

I added a washer at the machine side and was able to tighten to make them meet and have adjustment capability... Without it they wiggle when tightened to the end of the threads on the bolt. I will look at the parts manual to see if something official is missing.

Is it possible the discs have flattened over the years??

I am sure I am following the manual for the thread path. The only changes I made was to use fewer  (Just 2 in different ways) of the 3 where you make the S shape. I used less because it broke and I thought I had Too Much upper tension.

The stitches did not change, they just went further before the TOP thread broke

Sled

 

[Wizcrafts]

First, loosen the screw holding the unit in the body and pull it out slightly. See if the disks tighten as you pull it out of the housing. If so, the culprit could be the push rod in the body that causes the tension to release. Or, the metal tab it pushes against could be bent too far inwards, or even reversed. There should be free play in that thin rod before it hits the tension release plate. That should only happen when you lift the feet manually, or via the knee lever. Otherwise, the disks should close completely and be tensionable via the beehive spring.

I think you should consider ordering a complete replacement top tension unit.

[Sledzep01]

9 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

First, loosen the screw holding the unit in the body and pull it out slightly. See if the disks tighten as you pull it out of the housing. If so, the culprit could be the push rod in the body that causes the tension to release. Or, the metal tab it pushes against could be bent too far inwards, or even reversed. There should be free play in that thin rod before it hits the tension release plate. That should only happen when you lift the feet manually, or via the knee lever. Otherwise, the disks should close completely and be tensionable via the beehive spring.

I think you should consider ordering a complete replacement top tension unit.

Bought, thank you.

is there a trick to installing? or just screw it in?

 

Thnx Sled

[Uwe]

There's probably a set screw somewhere that holds the tension unit in place. Maybe you just need to move the tension unit out of the body a small distance to make everything work, as Wiz suggested.

If the problem originates elsewhere in the tension release mechanism, replacing the tension unit itself may not fix your problem. 

You really need to investigate if everything moves the way it should when you raise the foot lift lever. Take off the cover plate and look at all the linkages the foot lift lever moves (or should move). One of them will press against the pin on the rear of the tension unit to separate the tension disks. You should be able to see the disk move a tiny bit when you raise the foot lift lever. Take some pictures around your tension unit so we can add an arrow or two to explain things. Don't make us beg.

This video also shows nicely how this machine should be threaded: