Adjusting needle rocker to needle hole

[Michiel]

Ok guys,

i learned a lott by reading threads on this forum (and from service and part manuals)

but now i have a mystery (to me ).

i realise i have a rare sewing machine but maybe the old iron lovers on this forum have an opinion

its an old adler 166 heavy zigzag machine. I bought it as an "project machine" but after cleaning and oiling its sews well and seams in a good condition for its age.

It is stitching well and all the adjustments seems ok but one...: the needle is not in the middle off the needle hole but almost touching the backside of it.

i only have an manuall for the adler 366. On that machine you can adjust the needlebar wirh an excentric bearing.

I looked verry well but cannnot find one in this machine. Ther  is one excentric bearing in the zigzag feed, but that one is for zigzag with adjustment.

i examined the two bearings of the neeldebar but there is not a bearing i can reach without dismanteling i big part of the machine.

the bearing on the part which moves sideways wen zigzag sewing (donot know how it is called) you van see on the left underside.

it has twoo screes in stead of one so i thought maybe it was excentric. I succeed to turn it but it was not.

So here is my questio: is it possible the needlebar of these old machines can not be adjusted (horizontal) after leaving factory?

the needle plate cannot be shifted (as it is now) but i can aletr it to move a little backward.

The needleplate is not worn, so the old sailmaker (i cannot ask) had a way to work around.

my theory is that he bend his needles after installing them.

i did this finaly and with the bend needle the distance between the hook en needle looks good (and it sews well)

 

the other option is the machine changed in the years between h stopped  sewing and the moment i bought it but that doesnot make sence to me

(when cleaning and oiling i did not get the machine apart or changed other adjustments.)

I will try to  post more pictures but i cannot downsize them on my ipad and am alowed to upload only 1,4 mb

hope for some opinions,

regards, michiel

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Michiel

[Michiel]

Is there a way to upload more foto's (without starting another topic)?

thanks anyway and apologies for my english... 

[Northmount]

3 hours ago, Michiel said:

Is there a way to upload more foto's (without starting another topic)?

thanks anyway and apologies for my english... 

Reduce the photo size to 800 x 600 pixels and you will have tons of space to load more photos.  You can also make additional posts to this thread rather than starting a new thread.

Tom

[Michiel]

Thanks,

here are some more foto's

i would like to hear how this is done with other older machines (with single feed), can you adjust the needle bar or do you move the needle plate (or is it not possible at all)

ps the needle looks big but it is a normal size for this machine (i think this picture is with a 160 needle)

it is clear you cannot shift the needle plate (in the original design, i can make it shift)  but i really cannot find an eccentric bearing to turn.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Michiel

[Constabulary]

I neither know the machine nor it´s needle bar - not sure if the needle hole is centered in the needle bar but maybe you can loosen the needle bar clamp screw and turn the needle bar by 45° - just a guess when I look at the position of the needle holder. Of course reposition the needle it self as required

[Uwe]

Make sure you use the correct type of needle ( System 328 ) with this machine, otherwise things may not align properly.

Here's an Adler 166 User Manual:

 

I'm guessing you want to adjust needle position front-to-back so that the needle is centered in the curved slot in the throat plate.

First make sure you have the correct needle system installed. The System 328 needle may have a thicker shank than your current needle, which would move the needle toward the center of the slot.

Once you are certain the correct needle is installed, we can look at possible adjustments.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Uwe

[Michiel]

4 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

I neither know the machine nor it´s needle bar - not sure if the needle hole is centered in the needle bar but maybe you can loosen the needle bar clamp screw and turn the needle bar by 45° - just a guess when I look at the position of the needle holder. Of course reposition the needle it self as required

that's an interesting idea.

thank you i will investigate...

 

[Uwe]

Perhaps the bushing (outer sleeve) that the needle bar runs inside is eccentric. If it is, then rotating the bushing may allow slight adjustment of the needle position.

[Michiel]

8 minutes ago, Uwe said:

Make sure you use the correct type of needle ( System 328 ) with this machine, otherwise things may not align properly.

Here's an Adler 166 User Manual:

 

I'm guessing you want to adjust needle position front-to-back so that the needle is centered in the curved slot in the throat plate.

First make sure you have the correct needle system installed. The System 328 needle may have a thicker shank than your current needle, which would move the needle toward the center of the slot.

One you are certain the correct needle is installed, we can look at possible adjustments.

thank you too!

i use the needles which came with te machine (and  where the machine is timed to)

and i am almost sure they are the 328 system, but i will check them as soon i am at my workshop.

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Michiel

[Michiel]

Thanks verry much Uwe and Constabulary,

the needles are 328 (but always good to recheck)

turning the needle bar did the trick

the needle is now in the middle of the needle plate hole

as i already expected (in some way) i now know why someone (maybe) put the machine the way it was:

i now need to move the hook to the needle and need shims to fill the gap.

i will see if i can find them or make them (and if not i can turn the neelde bar back again and try to move the needle plate)

the machine is sewing but with its widest zigzag (9 mm) it skips sometimes a stitch on the left.

i think it is more than the distance hook needle but start with that...

thanks again your help is much appriciated !

Edited March 30, 2018 by Michiel

[Michiel]

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

We get quite a few Adler 166 machines in here for service, and stock some of the common items.  It's a machine that comes up quite a bit here.

Not in the 166-1 book, we use the race rings from, among others, the 366 parts book to move the hook closer to the needle.  See below image.

[Michiel]

After giving it an other look i discoverd  yesterday that my race (part 64 oo 205 0 on the expoloided vieuw) has  thread on the outside so by turning it 360 degrees it moved to the needle.

now  the needle is in the middle of the neelde plate and the hook needle clearance is ok.

this was the last adjustment i needed so now it sews like new.

i changed the needlesystem to 7x23 bevause it has an longer scarf (and i already had a lot of needles in that system from an other 166)

Because of of the stitchwide of 9mm or 10 mm it helps.

[Michiel]

In the adler 166 parts manual there are no race rings, but it seems my race (is it called so? ) to have the same part numbre (or is the six a five ?, hard to see on my copy

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

1 hour ago, Michiel said:

In the adler 166 parts manual there are no race rings, but it seems my race (is it called so? ) to have the same part numbre (or is the six a five ?, hard to see on my copy

Adler 166, 266, and 366 all use this same race.

[Michiel]

Thanks, for your reply's.

just Curiosity: does de race in the 366 als use thread, and are the race rings for extra?

as far as i can see in the parts manual when they designd the 166 they thought it was enough to hold the race "on the thread "(sorry my english is not as good as i would like )

but on the 366 everything seems to be a little bit stronger...

[Michiel]

1 hour ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Adler 166, 266, and 366 all use this same race.

Are all the settings also the same?

i used the service manual from the 366 since i did not find one for the 166.

is there someone with an service manual for the adler 166?

 

 

[Michiel]

On the 2 adler 166 's i could look into the moment of inversion of the driver (in the race) is different from the 366 service manual.

and because of that i think the driver should travel further to the left if i would follow the rule in the 366 manual....

on the foto you see the position of the hook on the moment of inversion of the driver (the "most to the left moment " of the hook) 

on this point i did not follow the 366 manual but the other machine....

the machine is sewing very well now so its more curiosity than a problem which should be solved 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Michiel

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Adler 166 Owners

Adler 166 Parts

Adler 166 Brochure

[Michiel]

Yesterday i cleaned the outside of the machine

(still not sure wther i keep it this way or put some new paint on it)

its now ready to use.

this post is to say thank you to  this forum

What  a great place on te internet is this!

kind regards, michiel