Invisible stitch from both sides of leather

[RockyAussie]

3 hours ago, fredk said:

most excellent

Thanks @fredk

 

1 hour ago, KingsCountyLeather said:

Wow! Thats very impressive.

I wouldn’t think it would be a very strong seam when the Thread doesn’t catch the top grain, but a very interesting technique.

I would have agreed with you with regards to the thread not catching the top grain once. I was sure that the top grain was stronger and stated so in an earlier post awhile back and was shocked to see some scientific study showed there was virtually no measurable difference between the two. I thought bull..... and split down some leather to get equal thickness and went ahead and broke both pieces looped over some heavy fish scales I have here. Did it a heap of times and could not prove them wrong!!!?.

I guess in this case the longer the pieces being joined the stronger it will be but for interest sake I will tie it off and put it to the hanging weight test. I can say it is a lot stronger a join than most would think, and given that it is only snaking back and forth from side to side I think if you did the same over and under up and across it would not be any better. I will get back with some test results over the next couple of days.

As for it being an very interesting technique............. I think this mentor might be a Tor- mentor. I just hope that all of that fine bag work above we get to see finished of and posted here.

[koreric75]

16 hours ago, WastelandOuterwear said:

Mitering might be a vaible idea but the two peices must not at all show thread. But are you also suggesting at the same time a tunnel stitch going inbetween the two mitered leather edges.

Yes, a mitered edge and what i would call a "slipstitch" shown below, difference is the leather edge is thick enough to not require a turned edge, but also so thick and on a corner or edge for a gusset that joining without a miter may make it very difficult to get the edges pulled tight without ripping out your stitches...

 

looks like the pic link didn't work so here is the site i found that has a good close up of the idea http://www.squishycutedesigns.com/ladder-stitch/

Edited April 25, 2018 by koreric75
added site ref

[WastelandOuterwear]

16 hours ago, rodneywt1180b said:

It's an interesting technique, similar to a ladder stitch in fabric sewing but fabric has a flap that's turned under.  The needle and thread doesn't need to be buried in the material on the back side.

I'm pretty far from being an expert but would it be possible with a very tightly curved needle and a matching awl?

Reading the article you posted this looks like a rare technique.  Is there a practical reason why the bag must be done this way?  Authenticity for re-enactment, something like that maybe?

Also, (purely selfish here) do you have more pictures?  I would like to see more of it please.

 

 

This is the braec moedoic "reproduction" that i am working on. Its a very close copy to the one below.

9 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Well.....That sucks!!!!. I will have to say that from what I can read there, the author does not really know how its done either. As far as I can make out in the reading it does not say the back would have no visible stitching and the picture provided looks to me that it would have back visible stitching. AT any rate I have below my effort of what it is I think you are trying to do. As I don't do this type of construction normally I have just grabbed a couple of tools and did a little modifying for the purpose. I am sorry if this is leads you off track but if the same end result is achieved should it matter?

1st. I tried the bigger hook in this pick and hook set and found it was better with the lesser hook shown.

Next I carefully bent a needle as I had none here that are curved. Broke the tip off so had to bend up a little further. Worked alright.

Next I marked a line down the middle to help keep centred and for picture purposes.

Here shows the technique and remember only every second hole needs to go through on each side.

Next I marked out the joining piece across to keep the pull of stitches in line.

Having done the opposite sides holes I did the bottom hole 2 in a row to start of even.

Not perfect straight but it'll do for now.

I will post more later due to picture loading size restriction.

 

This is what i needed from the post haha. Thank you very much, but the next problem us what is preventing the seam from popping out and exposing the thread? Below are the tools i was using, i found it easier to make needles out of wire vs steel ones. And i dont have a round curved awl so i had to make one out of copper. But the next issue is that. Would a stitch such as this be used in dark ages ireland, becauae i have found no evidence to support it, and would it even be a vaible option?

 

[gmace99]

The pictures above show the leather not going through the top grain.  This will still be a strong stitch.  I use a stitch  called a backing stich on English style saddles.  This does not go through the top grain.  We put a lot of stress on this when pulling it onto the saddle tree.

The stitch shown in the pictures will do the job.  A box stitch will also do it.

 

My hidden stitch done in the UKSaddlery video might top  be the stitch you need

[KingsCountyLeather]

4 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I would have agreed with you with regards to the thread not catching the top grain once. I was sure that the top grain was stronger and stated so in an earlier post awhile back and was shocked to see some scientific study showed there was virtually no measurable difference between the two. I thought bull..... and split down some leather to get equal thickness and went ahead and broke both pieces looped over some heavy fish scales I have here. Did it a heap of times and could not prove them wrong!!!?.

I guess in this case the longer the pieces being joined the stronger it will be but for interest sake I will tie it off and put it to the hanging weight test. I can say it is a lot stronger a join than most would think, and given that it is only snaking back and forth from side to side I think if you did the same over and under up and across it would not be any better. I will get back with some test results over the next couple of days.

That’s very interesting to know.  I even thought when using split leather that the stitching wouldn’t last over time because it didn’t have a top grain. Would like to read how your test goes. Thanks.

[gmace99]

The top grain will be stronger if I was making a pair of stirrup leathers I would not do a blind stitch. A bag will be fine unless you plan on carrying heavy weights in it 

I could show you pictures of a 50 year old saddle where the stitches are intact ant the leather on the seat has worn through.  This is a different piece of leather from the one with the stitch.

Edited April 25, 2018 by gmace99

[plinkercases]

RockAussie that is a very cool approach.

[RockyAussie]

Well I broke it. As the pics show I did a couple of more stitches to give me 3" to work with and threw in some holes and proceeded to carry out this highly scientific testing procedure. The scales used here are 200 kilo /440lbs. As can be seen the holes in the centre and the pulling pressure applied kept the forces localised over mostly 4 or 5 stitches. It all came apart at close to 40 kilo or 90 pounds if you like. By my reckoning that means close to 1/2 my body weight should be all right over 3" of stitching and therefore you could put 3 of me in that bag no probs except I wouldn't fit to good.

13 hours ago, plinkercases said:

RockAussie that is a very cool approach.

Thank you

Hope that is of some help if not a bit of a chuckle.

[KingsCountyLeather]

Very well done!

i think it’s great you took the time to help another LW with a problem. And made it interesting for the rest of us. Thanks.

[Joseph1836]

Thanks, I have never seen that befor , but aren't you worry that the roof my come down,.     Cool shop