advice on cutting patterns out?

[roncal]

I'm realitivly new at leather work and have a tipman boss sewing machine and pretty fair supply of leather working tools. I purchased the Stohlman encyclopidia of saddle making and have one decent 1st time saddle under my belt. I have trained horses for years and look to get into a safer realm of the business. Does anyone have any advice on cutting patterns out. I have not mastered the round knife and use a razor knife for cutouts. This is a great board and lots of good advice and beautiful work is shown here. Thanks a lot.

[Art]

Hi Ron,

A Round or Head knife is a wonderful thing, they can make one think they have arrived in leatherworking. I have 7 for God only knows what reason so maybe I think I have "arrived". That being said, I could probably get by with two knives well maybe three; a very sharp and honed box cutter, a surgical scalpel with #10 blades, and something I call a "clicker knife" with the curved or hook blade, all for about $30. Keeping it all sharp might run anywhere from $20 up. You can have all that for the cost of an Osborne Head Knife which won't be sharp enough when you take it out of the box. I know guys that get along perfectly well with just the box cutter although they keep them way sharper than they come out of the box, the "clicker knife" is great for inside corners (curves) and the scalpel for delicate and inside angle cuts although you can get larger handles and blades for most anything. If you are doing production and need speed, get a clicker and dies.

Art

I'm realitivly new at leather work and have a tipman boss sewing machine and pretty fair supply of leather working tools. I purchased the Stohlman encyclopidia of saddle making and have one decent 1st time saddle under my belt. I have trained horses for years and look to get into a safer realm of the business. Does anyone have any advice on cutting patterns out. I have not mastered the round knife and use a razor knife for cutouts. This is a great board and lots of good advice and beautiful work is shown here. Thanks a lot.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Roncal,

If you are serious about saddlemaking and leather working in general, the best advice I could give you is to stick it out through the learning curve and learn to use the proper tools for the proper jobs; This applies to everything from roundknife use to handsewing. Learning to use a roundknife can be difficult and a bit dangerous, just remember to never keep your empty hand ahead of the knife... always to the side of the knife. It is very easy for the knife to skate off and take a finger with it. Roundknives have been the choice of saddlers everywhere for well over a hundred years and for good reason; They cut thick hides very well, can be made to cut relatively tight curves, they can be used for skiving and with two ends to the knife can be flipped over in the middle of a cut when one end has become dull.

Stay away from cheap knives like the new Osbornes and some of the lower priced ones you see in leathercraft stores, they are part of the reason you will find it difficult to use this knife. Find yourself an old Osborne, Gomph, or W.Rose knife that is in good shape and have it professionally sharpened. If you cannot find an older knife, call Ellis Barnes in Arizona and order one of his $110.00 knives that will last you a life time and be indispensible on your bench. If you don't want to spend the money on one of Ellis' knives check Ebay for an old Osbornes knife (vs. modern Osborne)which is easily identified by the handle shape which is not flat on the butt of the handle... it is well rounded and smooth. Learn how to maintain a razor sharp edge on the knife and constantly strop the knife while using it to keep it razor sharp. A dull knife is difficult to use, dangerous as well, and you will never be able to cut gracefull curves with it.

For times sake as well as avoiding leather waste, cut your patterns only once from the hide. When learning to cut saddle parts out of hides it may be easier for you to rough cut your patterns bigger than you need and after casing the part, cut it to the proper size. Cased leather is much easier to cut than dry leather, but avoid cutting wet leather as the drag of the knife has the ability to misshape soft, wet leather.

When I am cutting patterns, I try to keep the point of the knife in the leather instead of cutting with the longer curved edge, this allows you to cut around tighter curves. Keep the knife vertical so that you are not undercutting the bottom of the leather... it's very easy to start leaning your knife around curves. If your pattern has a very tight curve, use an appropriately sized round punch in the curve, and cut up to the two sides of the curve. If you are cutting very thick hides that are really tight grained and firm, the knife can be rolled forward with downward pressure through the tough spots. Again, keep the fingers of your other hand to the outside of the knife; I often feel like I have an outward pressure on the knife so that if it does jump and skate away, it will be moving away from the fingers of my other hand. If you practice cutting cased leather, you will start to get the rythm and feel of being able to smoothly cut your patterns and in time it will become easier to cut dry leather.

When skiving leather, make sure your knife is as sharp as you can get it. I only skive leather when my knife is sharp enough to shave hair off my arm. When skiving, your leather should have some moisture in it... I usually case my leather or skive while it's wet. It helps to draw a guide line with some calipers to the point you want your skive to end. Don't try to take off too much leather at once. If you are skiving 15oz leather, start about 3/4" in from the edge and try to cut towards the edge so that the edge is about 2-3 oz after your first pass; This will help you avoid thinning the edge too quickly and then having a ragged edge as the width of your skive grows. Avoid trying to push your knife straight towards the edge; A round knife has a long curved edge which should be worked in a side-ways slicing motion. It's like taking a knife and pushing the blade straight down through a tomatoe... doesn't work quite as well as a slicing motion which uses more of the length of the blade to create a clean cut. Skiving will take you more time to learn than anything, and you will be tempted to try every gimmick ever made to make the job easier. In the end, learn to skive with a round knife and you will do a quicker, cleaner job of it without the mess that some of the potatoe peeler skiving devices create.

Darc

Edited July 2, 2007 by D.A. Kabatoff

[roncal]

Thanks, I have a Stolhman round knife and by golly I'm commited to learning to use it. Is the Stolhman knife a good one or should I look for one of the others you mentioned on e-bay. It was pretty sharp when I got it but I've managed to dull it pretty quick. I probably should take it and have a professional sharpen it and tell me how to keep it sharp. That's some really good advice on cutting the patterns larger and all. I appreciate the answers. Thank you.

[bruce johnson]

Ron,

I have not personally used the Al Stohlman knife. If it is like most of the reviews of the other Stohlman cutting tools, probably not the best. I started off with an Osborne, it was pretty good, but required more frequent sharpening not just stropping. I now have an older Osborne, but my favorites are two Clyde round knives. Osbornes are notorious for being the makings of a tool, but you have to put the final edge on yourself. The lore is that in the old days, everybody liked a slightly different bevel to the edge. They could put the final edge on themselves when they got them. The good old new days is that most people are picking up one for the first time and have no idea what the edge should be like. The good old knives Darcy mentioned are your best bet to start off I think - price, ease of sharpening, and learning curve wise. There are some good modern makers of knives - Bill Buchmann, J Cook, Wayne Jueschke, Danny Marlin, I am missing more I know. You are going to pay more from these guys, but once you know what you want, they might be the ticket down the road.

Once you get one, I would send it to someone who professionally sharpens leather tools, not the local guy with the scissors, saw blade, and knife shop. They are a little different than doing meat cutting knives. Herb French in Sheridan WY does a good job, and also has a little book out on sharpening leather tools. You can call him for it, Sheridan Leather Outfitters sells it too. The book costs $10 or so, and worth the dough. Once you have it sharpened by someone who knows how a round knife should cut, you will have a feel for it when you get it back. Once you know, and can try to keep it that way.

Keeping it sharp is key. Stropping often prevents a lot of going back to the stones or whatever. Stropping surface, stropping rouges, stones, wet/dry paper, crocus cloth, paper wheels, felt wheels, Cratex wheels, cutting surfaces - maintaining blades takes on a life of it's own.

Bruce Johnson

[Lee Jr]

I'm realitivly new at leather work and have a tipman boss sewing machine and pretty fair supply of leather working tools. I purchased the Stohlman encyclopidia of saddle making and have one decent 1st time saddle under my belt. I have trained horses for years and look to get into a safer realm of the business. Does anyone have any advice on cutting patterns out. I have not mastered the round knife and use a razor knife for cutouts. This is a great board and lots of good advice and beautiful work is shown here. Thanks a lot.

I am new to saddle work ( about 3-4 yrs ), I was taught to use parafin wax on my cutting blade when cutting thick leather has anybody done this? Lee Jr

[whinewine]

Ron,

I have not personally used the Al Stohlman knife. If it is like most of the reviews of the other Stohlman cutting tools, probably not the best. I started off with an Osborne, it was pretty good, but required more frequent sharpening not just stropping. I now have an older Osborne, but my favorites are two Clyde round knives. Osbornes are notorious for being the makings of a tool, but you have to put the final edge on yourself. The lore is that in the old days, everybody liked a slightly different bevel to the edge. They could put the final edge on themselves when they got them. The good old new days is that most people are picking up one for the first time and have no idea what the edge should be like. The good old knives Darcy mentioned are your best bet to start off I think - price, ease of sharpening, and learning curve wise. There are some good modern makers of knives - Bill Buchmann, J Cook, Wayne Jueschke, Danny Marlin, I am missing more I know. You are going to pay more from these guys, but once you know what you want, they might be the ticket down the road.

Once you get one, I would send it to someone who professionally sharpens leather tools, not the local guy with the scissors, saw blade, and knife shop. They are a little different than doing meat cutting knives. Herb French in Sheridan WY does a good job, and also has a little book out on sharpening leather tools. You can call him for it, Sheridan Leather Outfitters sells it too. The book costs $10 or so, and worth the dough. Once you have it sharpened by someone who knows how a round knife should cut, you will have a feel for it when you get it back. Once you know, and can try to keep it that way.

Keeping it sharp is key. Stropping often prevents a lot of going back to the stones or whatever. Stropping surface, stropping rouges, stones, wet/dry paper, crocus cloth, paper wheels, felt wheels, Cratex wheels, cutting surfaces - maintaining blades takes on a life of it's own.

Bruce Johnson

Has anyone used, or can compare the quality of, WEAVER LEATHER COMPANY'S Master Series Round Knife to say, a Danny Marlin round knife, or, at the other extreme, an Osborne round knife? I'd really like to know before I invest in a round or head knife.

Thank you in advance.

[Go2Tex]

What works well for me is to use a carpet knife to rough cut my parts, then use a round knife to make the final cuts. It produces a little more scrap but I can do it so much quicker and then cutting the final part out is easier because I have a smaller piece of material to work with.

The carpet knife is plenty sharp enough out of the box and you can strop it to keep it that way. It takes some practice to control at first because you are pulling it toward you instead of pushing it like a round knife. Just don't get too close to your lines you made for your rough parts and you'll do fine. Sometimes I even get cockey enough to cut my pattern out with one. Well, ok, maybe after a shot of J.D. I tried it once. For really thick stuff, it sure makes quick work out of it.

As for sharpening your round knife, I totally agree with what has already been said except that I have been able to get a pretty good edge on my knives using a sharpening tool that controls the angle of the stone. Since keeping that angle is critical to putting an exact edge on the blade, and since I NEVER could do it by hand, I bought one of those gadgets made by Gatco and sold by Cabelas and others. It works really well and I can put an edge on a knife almost as good as the pros. Finish up with a stop board and you can shave with it. eh, I would not recommend you try shaving with the carpet knife, though...

[Billsotx]

I rough 'em out like Go2Tex, 'cept I rough it out with the head knife. Give me some practice and I only have to maintain one knife. I'm lazy! The more one uses a tool, in this case the head knife, the better (s)he'll get with it. That ol' repetition is the "mother-of-skill" thing! ... my way, may not be the right way.

[barra]

http://www.jaeberly.com/id38.html

I have used cutters like the smaller rotary cutters mainly to cut carpet. I then came into one similar to the RES 4" /technix RC1000 models. It has an inbuilt sharpening stone and will cut thru leather like the thicknesses suggested like butter. These might not be so good for small curved areas but it will handle easily items with a large sweeping curve ala skirts. I just thought I would add a link to these types of cutters particularly for those into the rough cut out method or as a possible alternative to expensive clickers for those doing small production runs on items.

Barra

[rbrooks]

See freckel41 question in this forum for input I just wrote ten minutes ago. On same subject.

rbrooks

[seveneves]

I round knife is good but you need to get it razor shape to be effective. If you don't know how to do that I'd suggest using a simple utility knife. Get a leather strop to keep the blades sharp and keep changing blades often. I bought a big 100 pack of blades. It save a lot of time. I know it's not the traditional way but unless you know how to get you knife super sharp it's pointless. Round knives are good for skiving though.