Chrome tanned is longer lasting than vegetable tanned?

[doorty]

I've been doing some research, and a lot of websites claim vegetable tanned ages better.

But I think this academic paper* shows conclusively that chrome tanned lasts longer, specifically they measured the longevity of leather soles.

I'm planning to upholster a motorcycle seat, and I want to go with the most durable natural leather finish, i.e., no painted surface.

I like the patina on veg tan, but it might look weird to have the butt contact area significantly darker than the rest of the seat.

Thoughts?

*COMPARATIVE WEAR OF CHROME~TANNED, VEGETABLE~TANNED, AND RETANNED SOLE LEATHER
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/15/jresv15n4p363_A1b.pdf

Edited May 22, 2018 by doorty

[fredk]

The 'academic paper' dates from 1935 and only looks at shoe sole leather in one context

I think you need to consider the longevity of the likes of horse saddles which have lasted 50 plus years, some in almost daily use. A good well made horse saddle, well looked after will last  a very long time; probably out lasting several horses. At an estate near me there is horse tack which was made in the 1790s thru to 1820 approx, it is still in regular use - its been well looked after.

Veg tan leather will absorb leather feed and oils, chrome tan will not, or not as much. I've seen chairs which are over 100 years old, with veg tan leather, still in use, and I've seen chrome tanned leather covered chairs scrapped after just 5 or 6 years

[RockyAussie]

Personally I would think the chrome tan better for that job normally but if as you said you want a natural finish

2 hours ago, doorty said:

natural leather finish, i.e., no painted surface

you will not get that sort of tan colour. It would be a sort of green/grey and probably last no time at all..

[battlemunky]

Also, the butt contact area darkening with use would add a ton of character I think. It isn't like it is poop or anything. Worst case scenario some sweat. The rest would be wear from the sit bones which is where I think the character would come from.

[doorty]

This particular seat was chrome and veg tanned. I also really like the look of it regardless of whether it doesn't last quite as long.

My main point is to settle the argument over tanning and longevity. The only solid evidence (and there is another similar academic paper) says that the more chrome tanned the longer it will last. The only counter evidence for veg tanned is anecdotal. It makes sense given the chromium is smaller than veg tannins so that it acquires a deeper bond to the collagen, thus preserving the leather longer.

[LatigoAmigo]

The most durable leather I work with (and always my favorite) is latigo, which is chrome tanned then veg tanned. Hide House carries a nice selection.

[fredk]

6 hours ago, doorty said:

My main point is to settle the argument over tanning and longevity. The only solid evidence (and there is another similar academic paper) says that the more chrome tanned the longer it will last. The only counter evidence for veg tanned is anecdotal.

I would not support the use of the term 'anecdotal'

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by fredk

[Tugadude]

I don't think it is possible to settle the argument over tanning and longevity on this forum.  But good luck.

[doorty]

9 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

The most durable leather I work with (and always my favorite) is latigo, which is chrome tanned then veg tanned. Hide House carries a nice selection.

Can latigo be used for upholstery?  I know it's used for horse saddle straps, but those are too thick and rigid for upholstery.

[Tugadude]

Latigo is typically very thick, but a few sources sell it in 4-5 oz.   I'll leave it to you to decide whether that thickness would work.  It certainly would be durable to the outdoors.

[thePassenger]

Quote

There is no accepted laboratory method for measuring the durability of sole leather, nor is there any basic standard to which the durability of a given sample can be referred. Recourse was therefore had to the service test, whereby it is possible to get an indication of the comparative durabilities of any two leathers. The procedure can best be described by following through one series- series 1, for example. Tbis series consisted of 2 lots of leather, 1 vegetable tanned and 1 filled chrome, wbich were furnished by the same tanner. An equal number of right and left soles were cut from each lot. These soles were paired in such a way that the 2 soles in each pair came from the same location in the bides, and that half of the left soles were vegetable tanned and half of them chrome tanned. The soles were attached to shoes in the Bureau shop (a few were attached in a commercial shop), and were worn by members of the Bureau staff. Each wearer was required to record the number of hours the shoes were worn, and to bring them in for examination at stated intervals. When one of the soles was found to be worn through, the pair was withdrawn from service. The durability of the worn sole was obtained from the time record kept by the wearer; that of the other sole was estimated from the measured loss of thickness.

How I love science!

[Tugadude]

Were all of the testers of similar weight?  Did they have similar biomechanics, i.e. pronator versus supinator?  Heel strikers?

[Tugadude]

If we go back to the original post, it seems there are two standards being compared.  Vegetable tanned leather aging better and chrome tanned leather lasts longer.  In my opinion an argument can be made that those are different and can both be true.

Chrome tanned leathers can acquire a patina due to sweat, oils, friction and just plain dirt.  This is especially true of re-tanned leathers such as some of Horween's product that is chrome tanned and then vegetable tanned.

However, in my experience, vegetable tanned leather wins the patina "contest".  

[LatigoAmigo]

6 hours ago, doorty said:

Can latigo be used for upholstery?  I know it's used for horse saddle straps, but those are too thick and rigid for upholstery.

I bought some yellow latigo from Maverick Leather a few years ago that would work very nicely in this situation. The leather is more supple than other latigos that I've owned, and looks like it would age very well. I almost cried when I saw it because it was so soft and silky smooth, yet heavy (5-6 oz) and durable.

[doorty]

8 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Latigo is typically very thick, but a few sources sell it in 4-5 oz.   I'll leave it to you to decide whether that thickness would work.  It certainly would be durable to the outdoors.

Do you recommend any at the lower range of 4-5 oz?

2 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

I bought some yellow latigo from Maverick Leather a few years ago that would work very nicely in this situation. The leather is more supple than other latigos that I've owned, and looks like it would age very well. I almost cried when I saw it because it was so soft and silky smooth, yet heavy (5-6 oz) and durable.

@LatigoAmigo is this the one, 202 Latigo GBS? I think that would be perfect if it's not too thick. Do you happen to have any photos of your finished work to get a better idea of the color?

Edited May 24, 2018 by doorty

[LatigoAmigo]

That could be the one, but I'm not sure because I bought it from their store (when they were in Petaluma, CA) not from their website. You might give them a call, they might be able to provide you with a sample (nice people, family-owned business). I still have the hide as I've never come up with something to make with it, but in my youth yellow latigo was all I ever used for women's handbags.

[Tugadude]

I suppose you might get some suppliers to split it down for you.  Maybe call around and tell them the qualities you are after.  I've had good luck with Springfield Leather.