Contributing Member Ferg Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 I know your frustration. My first machine came from an "Outsider". It had zilch adjustments made for leather. Wiz talked me through many problems plus I love to see how machinery and electronics work so I often take things apart to see what is going on. My wife almost had a coronary when she seen me taking our two head CNC Router apart within weeks of having it delivered. Unmatched size of thread in bobbin and on top is no biggy. Just remember the smallest thread strength is what your stitch will be. Not much difference between 207 and 277. I can sew with 92 thread but I will be the first to admit it can screw up the settings you may have had for even 138 on the 3200. I certainly do not have any direct connection with CowBoy other than owning the 3200. It is an excellent machine. I personally would hate for you to sell yours because of your frustrations. I am going to give you my personal instructions I try to follow every time I have a tension problem and I will bet 50 bucks your problems are mostly Tension settings. #1: I tighten the tension screw on the bobbin to just barely snug with the bobbin removed. Not 40 pounds snug. More like letting that little screw driver turn between your fingers just before you drop it. #2: Now, loosen the screw 1/8th turn, reinstall the bobbin. Adjust the tension discs so they feel as though they are just making the thread have a little tension on it when pulling it through. #3: Rethread the needle and bring the bobbin thread up with top thread. I assume you are holding both threads behind or slightly to the side of foot when you first begin your stitching. #4: Your first thought may be, you really do not want to fiddle with this after your previous endeavors with the machine. I promise you, this will be worth it 90% of the time. #5: Follow the procedure with the bobbin tension spring, 1/8 turn no more than three times. Do not change the upper tension. Sew several inches in the same leather you wish to use for your project each time you change the tension. #6: The knots may not be quite right so change the top tension in very small increments until they are in the center and your stitches are tight. Please let us know what transpires if you decide to do this. Some folks have told me that is too much of a bother. Isn't when you are having as much trouble as you are. I hope this helps. Ferg
Contributing Member Ferg Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Clintock said: I've tried 138. Could never center the knot in 4/5 oz single layer. I mighta been asking too much of the machine. Now it's just 277 top and bottom. I see lots of folks doing 207 on bottom. I don't know the purpose of that. You'd still have to use a bigger needle for 277. So... the smaller thread on bottom wouldn't fill the hole. Is that correct? Smaller thread buries deeper in the leather? Knot harder to center? There's still so much I don't know about the machine. I think if you want to sew 138 in 4/5 oz. you need a flat bed machine. Ferg Edited June 19, 2018 by Ferg
Members Clintock Posted June 19, 2018 Author Members Report Posted June 19, 2018 @Bugstruck I've checked the tail. It's sucked back into bobbin. Tried that with 4 different bobbins now. Regarding 4/5 oz I was just referencing I've tried to stitch it. Never would do right for me. Mostly what I stitch now is 7/8 doubled or 7/8 with a 3 oz liner. So I know there's plenty of room for the knot to be centered. I'm half bald now and with this machine I'll be completely bald in a week or two. But I'm not gonna give up on it. @Ferg completely understand about wanting to know how things work. I've been that way for years. Went to trade school for automotive technician and went through apprenticeship for journeyman electrician. Have my nceer card for electrical now. Oh yea. Back to the machine. I'm not gonna bet ya cause I have no idea about it yet but I am gonna give those steps a try. Only thing I really haven't done yet is hit with a hammer. If this don't work Ima start with the biggest hammer I can find. Will definitely let ya know how the results turn out.
Members Clintock Posted June 19, 2018 Author Members Report Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Ok. So I've done all that you mentioned @Ferg still no luck. I'm out of disc adjustment. Included a pic Is the top tensioner supposed to be harder to turn than the main? I would assume the main supposed to be harder due to the fact it s the main. Anyone close to Alabama that can come fix it? I've been tinkering with it over a week Think I'm gonna start that procedure over and back off the bobbin spring another 1/8. And I may have overshot that sweet spot it was close on a couple runs but still had one or two knots on bottom. Edited June 19, 2018 by Clintock
Contributing Member Ferg Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Your "Needle holes" are awfully large. I know the needles are much larger on the 3200 than my Consew Flat Bed. Still seems to me, those holes are huge. If the needle makes too large on the holes the thread cannot make a knot stay within the leather. I think you are on the right track with one more 1/8th of a turn on the bobbin tension. One thing that complicates tension settings, someone mentioned this before I believe, thread from different suppliers will effect your stitching as well as some colors. Black is notorious. Looks like you are using an "LL" needle. Try a straight line stitch needle such as a "P" or "S". This is 138 in 4/5 oz. Bridle with a 4/5 oz. soft Veg Tanned Cowhide on back. I selected this photo because of seemingly large holes with a soft leather as a back and contrasting color thread. If you look very close you can see an occasional knot that isn't quite pulled into the center, or is it? The leather I used has soft spots in it. When the machine goes down the stitch line there are/can be spots that are more thin than others. That can, but not always, cause some of your problems. This was stitched on my 3200. Ferg Edited June 19, 2018 by Ferg
Members Clintock Posted June 19, 2018 Author Members Report Posted June 19, 2018 I'm using cowboy brand thread (277) from bob with a 24 LL needle. Maybe one more 1:8 turn will help straighten it out. Gonna redo it this afternoon after work.
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 Your stitches show heavy tension on the bottom --- meaning EITHER NOT ENOUGH TOP tension or TOO MUCH BOTTOM tension. Because the thread is not pulled up tight on the leather, I'm fixina opt for NOT ENOUGH TOP tension. I don't mean the holes, I mean the thread BETWEEN the holes doesn't look very tight. I know those needles and the thread you're using, and that don't look "sucked up". Try that thing I pictured. If'n t'was me, I'd back the WHOLE thing off 'n' start over. That's TWO screws above AND the bobbin case. Set you bobbin tension just so it has some "drag" when you pull the thread. NOT JERK the thread.. yer a equipment guy.. so think pulling the grader out the muck with a chain.. easy, even pressure gits er done, eh? Pull it in the direction it goes.. NOT against the thread path. Then adjust the top to suit. If the knot is centered, but thread not tight, then it's simple to snug up BOTH top 'n' bottom. I don't sew to see thread right there.. I sew like the top 'n' bottom is two elephants tug o war.. bury that thread in teh thing (almost)... By the way... you didn't want "light showing" through "big" holes. This is a 226 holster pic taken with a desk lamp pointed at it from behind. Size 24 Smetz LL point needle, 277 thread front and 207 thread back -- both threads supplied by Bob at Toledo Ind (link below). Yes, that's a fluffy pink pig on my desk, with her butt filled like a bean bag so she don't tip off. SO?@! "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Big Sioux Saddlery Posted June 19, 2018 Members Report Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, JLSleather said: Your stitches show heavy tension on the bottom --- meaning EITHER NOT ENOUGH TOP tension or TOO MUCH BOTTOM tension. Because the thread is not pulled up tight on the leather, I'm fixina opt for NOT ENOUGH TOP tension. I don't mean the holes, I mean the thread BETWEEN the holes doesn't look very tight. I know those needles and the thread you're using, and that don't look "sucked up". Try that thing I pictured. If'n t'was me, I'd back the WHOLE thing off 'n' start over. That's TWO screws above AND the bobbin case. Set you bobbin tension just so it has some "drag" when you pull the thread. NOT JERK the thread.. yer a equipment guy.. so think pulling the grader out the muck with a chain.. easy, even pressure gits er done, eh? Pull it in the direction it goes.. NOT against the thread path. Then adjust the top to suit. If the knot is centered, but thread not tight, then it's simple to snug up BOTH top 'n' bottom. I don't sew to see thread right there.. I sew like the top 'n' bottom is two elephants tug o war.. bury that thread in teh thing (almost)... By the way... you didn't want "light showing" through "big" holes. This is a 226 holster pic taken with a desk lamp pointed at it from behind. Size 24 Smetz LL point needle, 277 thread front and 207 thread back -- both threads supplied by Bob at Toledo Ind (link below). Yes, that's a fluffy pink pig on my desk, with her butt filled like a bean bag so she don't tip off. SO?@! Everything he just said, right there, especially the part about burying the thread. These machines are notorious for NOT having a tight stitch. The bigger the thread, the more it's going to lay on top. My 4500 does not especially like LL needles; everything has to be absolutely perfect for it to sew with them. S point needles are a little less picky, but I don't like the look as well, plus you can't sew as fine of a stitch. JLS does a nice job of stitching on that machine with the LL needles. I'd give him a listen.
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 19, 2018 Contributing Member Report Posted June 19, 2018 This should show the stitch well enough. Just by changing teh needle from LL to LR, with everything else the same and unchanged. The LL is a tight, straight stitch. The LR is a 'higher' - less set in stitch, with that slightly feminine, angled, "frilly" look that the girls seem to like Stitch length is the same, but the angle makes it APPEAR that the stitches are longer. The bottom shows the way teh LL needles close up the hole so well. 6 per inch shown (under a sig P938 slide) "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
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