Crazy stitching

[Clintock]

2 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I'd give him a listen.

Oh yea definitely. He's alright for a northerner. 

4 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Your stitches show heavy tension on the bottom

 Yes. Enough to make the leather curve or cup After it's stitched. Just can not seem to get the top tension to do right. I'll give your logic a try in an hour or so. Maybe two. 

 

I do wanna stay stay with the LL needles. I really like the way the stitch looks compared to straight or S needles 

[JLSleather]

26 minutes ago, Clintock said:

Oh yea definitely. He's alright for a northerner. 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

5 hours ago, Clintock said:

Oh yea definitely. He's alright for a northerner

And a Minnesotan no less!!.

[Clintock]

Ok. I've went through with some of fergs and some of jeffs suggestions and came up with this. Thread is tight as a banjo string and kinda hard to pull slack when finished stitching. Backstitches look like crap but that's prolly me. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions! Thank you all!

[JLSleather]

Why them holes look so big?@!  Turn yer needle just a tad... rotate it in the bar.  Looks like maybe a tad clockwise.. your thread may be a bit "behind' the needle.  

My buddy Robert had the greatest fix for backstitch issues.  Don't backstitch.  Turn the project around, stitch back in teh same holes in forward.  Solved.

No git ya a towel, dry yer eyes, and tell us what ya did for the next guy goes through that

 

[Clintock]

Did what y'all talked about. Cussed a little. Laughed a little to keep from crying. Cried a little anyway. Stare at it. Cuss it some more. Looked for hammer.  Only thing I did do differently this time was wrap the thread 180 degrees around top disc tensioner. Don't ask how that makes a difference but it did. Then followed yalls suggestion. 

Min all seriousness y'all have saved me a big headache. A big thank you!!! 

[Wizcrafts]

34 minutes ago, Clintock said:

Only thing I did do differently this time was wrap the thread 180 degrees around top disc tensioner. Don't ask how that makes a difference but it did.

It kept the thread deep inside the disks, which was not happening before. Bonded nylon and polyester thread is much more slippery than unbonded thread. Slippery thread that moves around in tension disks needs to have a greater angle of entry and exit from the disks to keep it centered. If the angle can't be changed, double wrapping it will help.

The theory of the multi-hole top post on some industrial sewing machines.

Because some sewing machines, like 441 and 205 types, have their tension disks on the top of the head/faceplate area, the incoming angle of incidence of the top thread can be almost inline. This is horrible for maintaining dependable top tension. Bonded thread is not only slippery, but is often twisty. That is a two way fight for the guide in front of the disks. So, vendors of these machines usually hammer in a thread guide post that has 2 to 4 holes, drilled at different angles. The idea is that if the thread is moving around in the disks, providing some back pressure will predispose the thread to stay down in the disks. By feeding the thread through holes at different angles, you build back pressure. The closer the wrapping and greater the angle of wrap, the greater the back pressure. It can be so great that it overrides your tension spring entirely. That is counterproductive.

So, if your machine has a top post with even one hole going through it, feed the thread through the hole and turn the post with pliers so the exit angle is not inline with the tension disks. If it has 2 or more holes, feed it in the top, then around, then out the bottom hole. Back off the top tension spring to balance the knots. If you back it off all the way and the knots are too high and the bobbin spring can't bring the knots down, go back to using one hole with an offset angle.

If your machine lacks a top post with holes, try to move the steel loop thread guide in front of the tension disks down as far as it will go. I did that on my CB4500 and it really helps secure the thread inside the disks. When really twisty thread causes trouble, I feed it through the top hole, around the post, then down and out the lowest (4th) hole, which is inline. I can still use the top tension and bobbin tension springs to fine tune the knots.

IHTH.

[RockyAussie]

If all you want to do is stitch thick double layer stuff then that tight as a banjo string setting may work for you. From what I have understood previously the problem has been more that the thread tension kept showing the knots intermittently. I suspect that if you back of this high tension you will get the same problem raise its head. There are a huge list of reasons as to why a machine will give you intermittent thread tensions problems and for future reference I will go through a few.

1st - always check that the thread is coming off at the spool without any catching. Sometimes thread can almost be welded together and all you can do there is keep pulling it off until and if it stops catching.

2nd make sure that the bobbin is wound on with a good even pressure and it should not catch at all intermittently when pulled through the spring in the bobbin case.

3. if the bobbin looks well loaded and it catches check the bobbin for smoothness. I often polish the ends and edges of mine on a rag wheel with Tripoli polish compound. I also use a drop of oil down in the bobbin case base to be sure of smooth friction.

4. occasionally I take the secondary (top tension) discs off and polish the faces to remove any formed ridges or imperfections.

5. on the primary tension(the lower tension assembly) I remove the discs and washers etc and the parts that rub against the felt pads I brush over a very fine wet and dry sandpaper then polish. I also put a little oil on the felts while I have them apart. (this area is often overlooked but if you check carefully you will see that the thread is turning that disc in the middle a little with every stitch or at least you should see it. If it gets hung up a times you have ...up and down tension problem.

6 Foot pressure. If your foot pressure is too light then when the knot comes up it can lift the job and then the knot can stay on the bottom. Some leather being hard and soft with insufficient foot pressure will give intermittent knots normally on the bottom side.

7 Bad timing.

In this case I will also point out that the shuttle race screws need to be loose enough to just see the springs behind the screw heads as seen about 9 minutes in on this Video. Some people mistakenly do them up tight including some sellers of these machines.

Lastly - In case you have not seen it I recommend to watch this Video . The only part I differ with here is that when I am loading a bobbin I prefer to hold the thread on the outside of the winder (I leave a tail about 6" long to hold) when it starts until it breaks off. This stops that loose bit of thread from tangling around and upsetting the even winding.

I am sorry I could not find my small fish scales to get some base settings as yet. I think they would also be great for showing up visually how much variation is happening from the top tension when being pulled through as well a the bobbin tension. I am sure I would have had sometimes a pound in tension variation and being able to say its the bobbin or the top or both quickly would be a nice jump start.

Brian

[JLSleather]

Wait.. so to be clear .. what you did is this?

HOW did I know the pink pig is a "she"?  My little girl said so.

Edited June 20, 2018 by JLSleather

[JLSleather]

First one might save a fella 14 minutes of what I'm having for dinner and my dog's friend's hair color -- how to adjust bobbin tension in 30 seconds.

Second pic an old one of so holster pattern testing, using #24 LL needle, natural thread in 277.

Third pic is pure propaganda   I would have preferred to use natural thread there (to complement the rope) but went with the dark brown requested.