DURKOPP 241-3 or Singer 111w155

[RonJr]

Im new to all of this and ended up with two machines before I really looked into anything.  One is a clean DURKOPP 241-3, the other is a well loved Singer 111w155.

My plans include new interior for a few projects I have (Marine Vinyl)   .  What machine should I put my love into?  I know the Singer 111 has a lot of parts available, I know how to thread it and use it, only draw back is no reverse.

I dont know anything about the DURKOPP 241-3 and have found nothing but one German book on it with little to no pictures.  I think this one has reverse, but it needs timed before I play around.  And I am not sure how to do that (time it).

I would like to set one up for use with a good slow servo motor so that I can get use to it.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by RonJr

[Uwe]

It's good form to post what you found. 

Here's the German Language manual for the Durkopp 241 ( Durkopp_239_241_242_541_542_DE.pdf), which may or may not be the book you referred to. You can always type a few key paragraphs into Google translate. It'll make as much sense as most other translated technical manuals.

This manual is really as good as it gets for vintage machines like this. You just need one annotated graphic to explain hook timing requirements, regardless of language (hook timing position is at 1.6mm needle rise, by the way). Most other adjustments are the same as dozens of similar machines. Many parts and assemblies on the Durkopp 241 are practically identical to the Singer 111. If it looks the same it probably works the same.  It's a little like riding a bicycle. You wouldn't say "I can't ride this bicycle - I've never seen a saddle like that before."  If you're comfortable with the Singer 111W155, then you're 90% there for this Durkopp 241. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Uwe

[Constabulary]

Dürkopp 241 / 239 are using the same feet as the Singer 111 it also has the same hook saddle, tension unit and a few other bits are interchangeable too. You also can use Singer 111 hooks in this machine. Advantage of the Dürkopp 241 is that is has reverse. If you are not Singer crazy (as me) you can´t go wrong with the 241 if it is in good condition. Afaik the 241 has not safety clutch - not sure is your 111 has one. The timing procedure is the same on both machines.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Constabulary

[Trevor Baret]

Hey Ron,

I am tempted to say keep the Durkopp and send me the Singer.  But that might be affected by my self-interest...

Like Constabulary, I am a bit of a nut for Singer machines (which is obvious in the list I show below), and I am looking for a 111 to include in my collection.  But the cartage from Seattle to Sydney would be more than the cost of finding and buying one in Australia.  From what I know (without ever using either of these machines yet) I can only second those comments above.

[Albob]

I have and use a the Singer 111W155. No reverse is a small issue at best. However almost everything I'm sewing is sized where I can spin the work around and back stitch so keep  became that in mind, but for belts wallets and  light weight holsters its joy to use. I have done the servo motor conversions, that made all of the difference. Here's a belt I recently did. 5-6 with a 3-4 liner.

[RonJr]

Thank you for the info guys!  I am going to keep each of them for now.  I found a Commercial dealer in Renton WA that can do a basic service and tune up for a fair price.  So I may drop them off and let a pro get me on the right foot.  That way I am not fighting a worn or broken part or my lack of knowledge ! 

Edited August 29, 2018 by RonJr

[koreric75]

On 8/23/2018 at 6:43 PM, Uwe said:

You can always type a few key paragraphs into Google translate. It'll make as much sense as most other translated technical manuals.

I don't know why i didn't think of this!  I found the basic inst manual for the adler 67 in english...that got me through threading the machine and bobbin and oiling...but anything else is all in german.  Thanks UWE!

[RonJr]

Hope its good news from the shop!  still waiting.

Edited September 12, 2018 by RonJr

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, RonJr said:

And now///  I found a Singer 431 D200a.  Dont see much info on it.  Looks like a good unit, its up and working.  Still not word from the shop in Renton on the two other units I have.

Anyone know anything about the Singer 431 D200a.  

That is a tailoring machine for cloth only.

[RonJr]

Thank you Wiz !  

 

Well the Singer is up and running with a few new parts and a nice servo motor from the shop.

The Durkopp needed more parts than I was willing to buy, so it works, but not all that well, I will sell it off as I do not need two machines.

Now I am playing with the Singer, trying to get it to sew right, I am new to all of this so its a large learning curve.

When I picked it up from the shop they had it treadled and were sewing with it.  I got it home, plugged it in after installing the new servo motor, used up the last of the tread on the test piece and it was working great.  Re-treadled it and it all went to poo on me.  After reading a bit more I should have not changed out the type and size of the top thread while keeping the heavy bobbin thread,  as my top line lays flat and the bottom line comes up through the piece work (top thread was light cotton, bobbin was V-69).  I played with the top tensions but it looks the same or it just breaks the tread.  So today i will venture out and buy some V-92 Poly and a few new needles in 18-20 size and try it again!

I have a bunch of scrap vinyl that I am working with and I planned on using the V-92 Poly for my boat seats, so that is what I will try to get dialed in this weekend!

 

[Tejas]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:38 PM, Albob said:

No reverse is a small issue at best. However almost everything I'm sewing is sized where I can spin the work around and back stitch ....

Here are four ways to lock stitches at the start and end of a run without back-tack reverse:
1. Bury the needle, turn the material end for end and sew over the seam. The result is the same as a back-tack but not always practical for large projects.
2. Sew to the end of the run. Lift the foot slightly pull the material about 1/2 inch toward you, drop the foot and sew over the seam. It is important when pulling the material toward you to maintain upper and lower thread tension to avoid a jam.
3. At each end of the run, leave several inches of thread. Tug the thread on the under-side and pull the top-thread through. Tie off the two threads with a surgeon's knot. A square knot can be used, but a surgeon's knot is more secure.
4. Same as above, but leave even longer threads. Do not pull through. Thread a needle on each and sew several stitches back through the same holes in the seam, essentially the same as a manual saddle-stitch. A hassle, but the resulting back-tack should be more secure than a machine back-tack. Also, the result is cosmetic.

However, reverse, at lease on some machines, can be used for needle positioning, such at the end of run or when turning a corner.

 

[Northmount]

@RonJr When the thread is laying on the top, there is too much top tension, or vice versa, too little bottom tension.  But first make sure that the machine is threaded properly, especially where it breaks the thread.  Are you holding the thread tails when you start sewing a seam?  If not, you need to as it can result in a birds nest on the bottom side and result in breaking the thread, jamming the needle, and even bending or breaking the needle.  The tension would also be lost for the first several stitches.

Tom