RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 21, 2018 Hi, I found this how the professional finishes the leather edges with an huge sander. If Saddleback Leather Co. does it, it must be Right! Soap and electrical sanding. Thats it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 21, 2018 Wow! So, just plain beeswax for finishing edges, and giving the case a final protective coating? [Notices bandage on the finger of the guy cutting out the holes... ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted September 21, 2018 Rustic Don't forget that's after its cut perfectly and all the trimming done as well. if you can do that within 5 hours and look the same, I will be amazed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 21, 2018 Yes the form or mold makes all the difference. Trimming I have not seen there but if then it was done with the machine. Yeah they chisel with an sanding Stone the holes out and then run it with a Soap huge electrical sand Stone. They leave the items basically unfinished as it seems since on their Webpage they have an NEW and Patina worn example. These they sell for 79$ according to their Webpage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 21, 2018 My opinion: >>Not to Pretty. But kudos to make it happen. I just wonder if it holds up since how will the leather stay on the phone without an plastic insert? There ya go 100% leather….<< Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NVLeatherWorx Report post Posted September 22, 2018 On 9/21/2018 at 6:09 AM, RusticLeatherShop said: Hi, I found this how the professional finishes the leather edges with an huge sander. If Saddleback Leather Co. does it, it must be Right! Soap and electrical sanding. Thats it. I am hoping that you were being sarcastic about this. Saddleback Leather is not design and process guru that some think they are, just as there is no validity to the statement that just because it is on the Internet or Facebook or whatever your favorite online distraction is that it must be true. There are just as many ways to finish your leather edges as there are to do anything else with leather so it is up to YOU to figure out what works best for you and then stick with it. I, for example, have been working with leather for over 40 years and was taught the method of simply wetting the edges and then hand burnishing and it works just as it should, as long as you do it properly. I also have a mini bench motor that I have setup as a burnishing station just to fiddle with and I use the same technique of wetting the edges and then run it on my burnishing machine. The results are exactly the same as when I hand burnish but it takes more time to accomplish this way than by hand because you have to lessen the pressure applied so that you don't over heat the leather and scorch it. A craftsman needs to figure out their place in this market, educate themselves for that place, tailor their skills and expertise to meet the needs of that place, and then stick with it. Only look to change something if it isn't working at all and then make sure that what you do replace it with works as you want it to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 22, 2018 Well in an plutocratic Democracy like most of North-, Southamerica and Europe is, the Price is supposed to reflect the Quality. Saddleback is about the top notch of Pricing together with some German European leather manufacturers. If I would make that Piece of leather, they would be willing to give me 5$ max; but since it's "Saddleback" they can Charge 79$ for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ferg said: Your expertise does not even come close to Saddleback How do you know. I could reply that (insult) to you as well: but due to respect of Age, I am not gonna do it. That iPhone case of Saddleback is uggly . And for Expertise I dont pay but for results yes. I can see their Messenger bags being expensive - but These Smartphone cases?!?? Otherwise yes their pieces are made well and complicated. But the dedicated custom made molds make a lot of difference, as well as their more advanced technique. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferg Report post Posted September 22, 2018 Rustic, After cutting leather for as many years as I have plus observing other folks who are true artists. That is how I know your no expert. Maybe I should change that to, "You think You are". I don't mean to be agitating you. You just have your less than well done product showing it's less than great face and trying to convince everyone your work is top notch. That simply isn't true. Soooooo, prove to me and others that you can really do good work. You haven't shown it yet and you are so full of yourself I don't think you know how. Ferg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullmoosepaddles Report post Posted September 23, 2018 The final process of buffing is not done with a sand stone. That is a 4 or 5 inch wide cloth buffing wheel, dressed with a wax block to charge the fibers in the wheel. No sand stone there except in the Dremel tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brmax Report post Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) Thats quite the saddle back video, a great education into the details of the case. Of course they made it look easy, especially with the well thought out workstations. I also happen to appreciate the leather wrap on the hammer, thats called a field experience modification. Thanks for the show! Floyd Edited September 23, 2018 by brmax Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, brmax said: thats called a field experience modification. Yeah, I was wondering why they didn't just use a proper leather mallet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 23, 2018 Here's some of his work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgIKA36rIPc It speaks for itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted September 23, 2018 Rustic Why do you always fight the forum full of experienced people, in the video above you see one of your holsters, the outline machine stitching is nice and smooth around the curve which is good but the actual edges are very rough which shows a lack of attention, on the middle of the holster the presumably mag holder is all over the place and exceedingly rough work Now if you did it again and took your time rather than rush it, you could cut out the leather using a paper pattern to get it looking uniform, then using dividers or a compass mark your stitching line onto the leather a set distance in from the edge, then take a few minutes to line the rest up central to the design and so on This all takes time but when its finished people will pay more and tell others of your work, then people with more money may want to buy a better product from you Your country is poor, but still has very rich people living there and some just comfortably off, you need to build the skills to be able to sell to the comfortably off who will probably pay ten times what a poor man will pay for your work You are adverse to using leather glue but to improve you need to change your mind so you can glue most things into place and then sew them, that way they do not move around as you sew Stop rushing around and spend a little time on attention to detail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 23, 2018 I did not even remember that video. Those items have since been discontinued. The leather shifts while sewing without glue. I will find some glue but only wood glue is locally available or shoe sole glue. Don't know if that will do it. Even when cutting the edges perfectly square, I have to trim afterwards due to the leather shifting. The edge finish was allways a problem which I thought had found the solution for it with the binding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted September 23, 2018 11 hours ago, 480volt said: This guy’s a troll. There does seem to be an Etsy sight but it has zero sales. I’m not buying the lapsing in and out of broken English and the unrelated and frankly racist bashing of “average latinos”. Maybe a moderator can identify if he really is in Paraguay, but I’ve heard enough. The IP address resolves to 191.97.122.108 Paraguay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NVLeatherWorx Report post Posted September 23, 2018 14 hours ago, RusticLeatherShop said: In my experience thats typical for latins to improvise items by modifying factory items. It's called "fix ya in the backyard". Cars are found often with third Party screws even on the Motors head. Oil Reservoirs are closed with an plastic bag and an coffee Reservoir screw for lid since they lost the original oil Reservoire screw and dont wanna spend Money on a new one. Driving motorcycles without oil till it stops is not that uncommon eighter for the latino. Simply Dave from Saddleback is to stingy to buy his workers an propper leather mallet. Otherwise in Southamerica we don not have that choices since simply leather mallets I have never seen over here. Rubber and plastic mallets have already arrived here in the last 10 years. Normally as a boss you dont wanna buy much things since your workers dont care about the items or frecuently steal them. I do it like that not buying any wrenches anymore and tell them to bring their own wrenches since they dont steal from themselves. A latino is very tricky in making you loose Money. They try constantly to damage you with loosing or breaking your stuff and then complaining they dont have the propper Equipment. At least over here that has worsened in the last 20 years dramatically. Even on their own vehicles, if they have a car, the average latinos tends to Forget to fill up the Radiators water, and the like. Example: As Bolivia and another Country were at war, the bolivians ordered from the english artillery but never lubricated them. Then the Bolivian command complained to the english their new Equipment didnt work anymore propperly and claimed compensations. And the like. It's a cultural Problem. And now that you have called out Dave from Saddleback you need to understand that he was once operating here in the U.S.A. (his homeland) and decided to take his operation south of the border to save some serious cash (which he now banks even more of). The leathers are all sourced from local tanners where is based now and their quality is not as great as they are made out to be. I have personally spent time with a Saddleback bag and the smell of the leather was repulsive at best. The quality of the stitching is nothing to go crazy over as it is machine stitched and I have seen these bags fail as a result of that. There is nothing that is great about a Saddleback product nor does anything about their products make them the authority of quality, process, technique, or even a top-notch price example; they simply charge more for lesser quality work than they used to be in the beginning and in turn the people who actually do all of the work are given a meager salary at best to give their life to the brand. There are plenty of self proclaimed Masters out there who can baffle you with bullshit all day long and just because you have a great looking product doesn't mean that you have a great product; a great product is one that has been carefully designed and methodically produced to give the user years of useful service and that all requires expertise, training, and humility. You made a comment earlier that you don't pay for expertise but you pay for results. Well, let me lay this out clearly: quality results only come from expertise and true knowledge of your trade and there is no way around that one; this applies to every trade out there and to think otherwise shows a serious lack of humility which is a necessity when you are trying to learn and improve your craft. I have seen many people offer you guidance and assistance with the questions that you pose here and yet every time you drag out a thread by creating argument points or contentious disagreement with the answers. Here is the reality that we all must face: if we want to play with the big dogs then we need to become a big dog and establish our place with the rest, only you control that so give that some hard thought. To make it a bit easier to understand for you I will use your comment on how you don't pay for expertise but you do for results and I will equate that your Etsy shop. You are new to Etsy so the fact that you don't have any sales yet is not something that I am going to go after because the sales on Etsy don't just happen because you are there, you have to wait for them. I will however comment on the quality of the workmanship that you have posted with your 3 listings and when it comes to results I have to say that they are NOT of a quality that is being sought out. You may be a person of skill in your homeland and there may be people who look to you for the skills that you have because they have no idea how to do it themselves but your skills, expertise, and the results of them are not of the level that your global marketplace are looking for. The majority of consumers, whether of leather goods or other items, look for quality results in their products and the expertise behind those results because once you start comparing the "value" priced item against the more expensive item (leaving Saddleback out of this equation as the quality is not as good as it is touted to be) you need to be looking at the expertise level. I have made wallets, belts, purses, and other items back in the early 1980's that are still being used today by their owners and that is because I put my skill, knowledge, and expertise into every piece I make and I gained those items through education, practice, asking for guidance, and asking for critiques and reviews; all of this to become better at what I do and all of it required some humility because you don't always get that glowing response. This is the way of the world and if you wish to compete in it and with those of us who are in it, and here, this is what you have to start working towards. You can better serve yourself by absorbing the guidance and help that has been so graciously offered by the many people within these forums or change direction and quit asking questions that you don't really want to hear an answer on because it doesn't fit within your wheelhouse. Your situation where you are is different than every one of ours and ours are all different from each other as well and we understand and accept that; you need to spend your time focusing on your market before you can visit other markets and if your area can not support your intended desire to grow a business then you need to get yourself up to standards and results that will allow you to compete elsewhere. No intention to beat you down here because that is not how we as helpful resources should be operating but sometimes the truth must be made known and it often is painful to accept. Just keep working on your results to achieve what you are looking for and don't worry about what the "other guy" is doing, you be you and find your niche in this trade and let them have theirs. Good luck and keep practicing towards fine finished products. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 23, 2018 Rustic, the video you posted shows how rough edges can be fixed by sanding and burnishing. Sure, it takes time, but it's not a difficult skill to learn. I don't understand why you don't adopt some of the techniques shown in this (and other) videos, or described by the more experienced leatherworkers here! Hiding rough, uneven edges with roughly sewn on braid is NOT the way to go! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 23, 2018 NV, just wanted to say I appreciate the constructive criticism you tried to give this guy in your post above, even if HE doesn't! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said: Thanks for the Geography lesson here and I agree with you on the racist tones We have wast experiences with latins and indigenous (Indians). We came here in an semi empty land in 1927 and since society has become pluricultural. BTW, the tannin tanneries in Europe and USA used during that time till end of 1970 I believe, came from here (quebracho wood and palo santo wood). 16 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said: There is nothing that is great about a Saddleback product "100 year warranty". "You will inheret Saddleback products to your grandchildren". "Your children will fight over Saddleback items to inherit them". Some of their claims. Saddleback are supposed to be the best of the best in Northamerica. 18 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said: Hiding rough, uneven edges with roughly sewn on braid is NOT the way to go! I agree. I bought an #300 sanding paper and sanded the edges of my wallet. Got shortly a huge blister on my finger. But it rounds the edges off. Yea I could straighten cut the edges, sand them for rounding off and then bind them with nylon webbing. That would be for peace of mind of the consumer since he knows the finish underneath the binding is done properly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said: a great product is one that has been carefully designed and methodically produced to give the user years of useful service That's exactly what RusticLeatherShop is all about. That's called "overengineering". If it's for durability, I'll beat 'ya 'all! I am convinced my products will outlast any other brand and design, simply because they are overengineered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheilajeanne Report post Posted September 23, 2018 The nylon webbing is ugly, unevenly sewn and has a rough, raveling piece at the end. I took 2 years of Home Ec. in junior High. That edge binding would get a failing grade from my Home Ec. teacher! A nice, burnished edge on leatherwork is professional and pleasing to look at. Jeez, have you NO desire to improve your work? Guess not... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Sheilajeanne said: The nylon webbing is ugly, unevenly sewn and has a rough, raveling piece at the end. I took 2 years of Home Ec. in junior High. That edge binding would get a failing grade from my Home Ec. teacher! A nice, burnished edge on leatherwork is professional and pleasing to look at. Jeez, have you NO desire to improve your work? Guess not... Ok. The nylon webbing on their edges are finished with a lighter. Simply burned off to seal the ends. How else could I finish it better off? Yes I am eager to improve... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NVLeatherWorx Report post Posted September 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said: NV, just wanted to say I appreciate the constructive criticism you tried to give this guy in your post above, even if HE doesn't! I thank you very much, this is what these forums are supposed to be all about and yet we tend to collect those low-skilled, non-thinkers, who feel that they are capable of competing with us. This is the perfect candidate for a Darwin Award. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusticLeatherShop Report post Posted September 23, 2018 Regards the SPI (stitch count per inch) that's a practice over here with tailors who use Brother sewing machines for fabric or embroidery. Those machines have built in stitch counters. SPI counting is easy: measure 1 inch and the thread you see on top counts 1 stitch. There is a youtube video about that. It would be a viable option. Thread size is irrelevant since that cost can be neglected. Obviously over here I am not gonna pay any bill from this. The binder edges I may have to burn off to seal them and then fold them over underneath to make a nice edge. That idea came me from the closed thread. That would improve things and make look the finish better. Regards durability, I would want to find out in an contest, since I am sure my products would last the longest. I will try to make the finish and appearance better (specially the endings of the bindings). But overall the binding process makes for and double strength product which is hard to beat regards ruggedness and durability since I am already using full grain pig leather instead of split genuine leather. I have yet to be able to rip the full grain pig leather apart. The thread is not going to fail whatsever since the binder adds to an second layer of thread for a total of (2 x #138 bonded nylon thread) #276 thread strength (basically equal to 1 layer of #277 bonded nylon thread). But for a way cleaner and better look. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
