Barry King dot so-what

[JLSleather]

Actually, I had forgotten all about this. Now that it's brought up, let's try this other approach. EVERYBODY go pick up one of these knives.  Then post a pic of your work "before" teh knife, and the same carving "after" the knife.  Then we'll know it's the knife, eh?

 

[YinTx]

This is fun.  I went to a short class with Jim Linnell when I had the opportunity at the IFOLG show.  My wreckerative cuts suck.  So I stood next to him at the end of class and watched him work, very smooth, quick, easy.  I handed him my knife, said "Hey, my decorative cuts are miserable.  I want to make sure it is me and not the knife."  He said "Almost never the fault of the knife.  Hey, your blade has a nice polish on it."  He made a few cuts, did fine, handed it to the other guy teaching the class, who put down his really nice looking super spinner swiveler, and cut with mine.  Says "hey, I actually like this knife!"  I said "Great, you want to trade?" (he declined lol).

So clearly the performance of the tool was in the hand of the beholder.  I also got better when I put a different blade that I had sharpened a bit better in, and a little bit better after a few hundred cuts.  I still kinda suck though.

I also watched a guy put a super razor sharp edge on a Japanese kitchen knife with a brick - from his back yard.  I've put a decent edge on a knife with a broken cheap stone.  Also a pretty good edge with a pricey stone.  If I had the skill and no $$, the brick will do.  With a bit of skill and a bit of $$, the nicer stone is fun to use, and I can get a little bit better results with it than I would a brick.  I have a basket weave stamp that won't go straight to save my life.  Have a Robert Beard that goes straight as an arrow no challenge.  As my momma always said, you pays your money, you takes your chances!  I've been itchin for a nice blade in a nice swivel knife, but for now, my old Tandy blade is cuttin along.

YinTx

[JLSleather]

I once saw a video of a guy carving leather effortlessly with a metal spatula from the grill.  Smooth, clean cuts.  I'll leave it to him if he wants to share his video or not.

But it was never about knives.  The whole point was - and is - when you start dropping names as if that would influence the quality of the tool in any way, you have diminished respect for yourself and not added any for the names you drop.

These people who created these "must have" tools... HOW did they become skilled carvers BEFORE THE TOOL existed?  They didn't need it, but want to push the idea that YOU need it.  Videos of course the same principle.. those pushing videos, HOW did they gain their own skill/experience BEFORE the video existed?  

Some small man will be along directly, inordinately defensive, to act as though I'm trying to talk people OUT of buying these things.  Not the case at all --- I'm a firm believer that what a guy does with HIS money is none of my business, nor my concern.  And I don't sell them, so I have no dog in that fight .. no interest one way or the other.  

What I actually said was short and clear - I got a knife, didn't know it was coming, viewed it as no better or worse than other knives I already own, which caused me to see it as an unnecessary expense.  I don't "collect" tools just to have them, nor do I keep tools based on who made them (in fact, I don't know of anyone so important that their name on a tool would cause me any concern at all).  Wasn't about money, since I didn't need to spend ANY to have the knife - could have just kept it free and clear.  But if I wouldn't spend MY money on it, then I certainly wouldn't spend YOUR money on it. Sadly, that's become the exception rather than the rule these days -- I am aware that most have no trouble spending OTHERS' money ...

 

 

 

[chrisash]

If you market two items straight off the same production line, and call one "X" and the other "X Plus" at a higher value, many will pay extra for the plus version as they see perceived value in the name plus, its all about building up a brand value

We all appreciate a top end sports car like a Ferrari but has anyone ever seen one with 100,000 miles on the clock, I doubt it , yet all other standard cars these days are good for many more miles than that with just a service every year or two. yet one costs £100,000 plus the other about £25,000. Experts will buy a knife knowing its made of the best steel for knives at a high price, whilst others just buy because of a name regardless of the real quality of the steel, or you can pay a fortune for a old bottle of wine, yet it's corked when you do open it, and valueless

Perceived value is a tricky thing experts in marketing try very hard to attach to a brand, which may or may not go along with quality

[Rhale]

I have a lot of different swivel knives by different makers guess you could say I collect swivel knives, all can cut leather, some better than others.  All take some getting use to.  About the time I think one is better than the other I try a different brand and after getting use to it I think it’s better.  I think all the higher end knives are great, the blade, sharpness and barrel size you get use to seems to effect me more than who made it. I prefer 3/8” barrel with 1/4” straight blade in most all for carving,  a little larger barrel and blade for long straight border type lines. Chrispness of stamps is a whole other story, I don’t think you will get Bob Park type carving or stamping with craftool swivel knife and stamps.  Just my 2 cents..

[JLSleather]

5 hours ago, chrisash said:

many will pay extra for the plus version as they see perceived value in th

that's not perceived value, that's getting suckered   I fell for that before .." look Jeffy, this one is shiny" .. though in my defense I was about 5 years old.  WAIT... there that really cute girl ... but turns out that was largely just marketing too (they're like swivel knives, set aside the best one and the worst one, and the rest are pretty much the same).

 

5 hours ago, chrisash said:

tricky thing experts in marketing try very hard to attach

you are correct.  this is why i always say compare the items and learn to distinguish between quality vs hype

2 hours ago, Rhale said:

after getting use to it I think it’s better

theres certainly some truth to that.  Folks ask  "what is THE BEST lure for catching walleyes?"  And the answer -- the one you will USE.

AGAIN: 

Had that knife been notably better than others I've used, I would have SAID that. 

And while sissies and marketing people (often the same people) tell you it's not "nice" , had it been notably worse than others, I would have SAID THAT too.  True is of more value to me than "nice" (and will continue to be until somebody can explain how lying and deceit is "nice").

So in a word, my opinion of that particular knife?  It's "okay".

Edited December 12, 2018 by JLSleather

[OnePivot]

Im in automotive and have a ton of tools. Literally everything I need. Years ago I sold off almost all my snapon stuff and used the money to buy qualify "off" brand. Its been 10 years since, and no regrets. Actually, a lot of benefit since I now have more tools. 

People really like the prestige of the brand name, without regard to how the item actually functions. I dont care about things like that. When it comes to actual function, the high end tools damn near never work better, they're just more expensive.

Asian tools used to basically always use cheap pot metal. These days, the stuff coming out of china is nice fully hardened high carbon steel, or high grade stainless. Lots of S2 tool steel in use too. I got a really excellent head knife for $20 bucks a few months ago, the blade is excellent. 

[JLSleather]

Yup - I bought a "cheap" pneumatic stapler for $19 .... wanted to "shoot" new aluminum soffitt on the house before hanging new siding.  YEARS later, that gun still works great!

Uses the same staples as other brands, attaches to the same air hose and couplings, .. only thing missing is the COMMERCIALS and HYPE

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by JLSleather

[sbrownn]

Some people get enjoyment out of using Barry King edge tools with cocobolo handles even though they may not do any better job than the economy Tandy edger.  So what?  If using a particular tool makes the task more enjoyable for someone then I say "go for it".  Don't worry about, or listen to, people who criticize you for wasting your money or call you a sucker.  To each his own.  

[JLSleather]

58 minutes ago, sbrownn said:

If using a particular tool makes the task more enjoyable for someone then I say "go for it".

absolutely true.  no matter the brand or the hype. "good" or "bad".  expensive, or not.  for quality or for ego.  none of that matters - if you wanna use it, use it.