do you want an apprentice?

[ETW Grumpy]

I have been thinking about approaching some of the leathersmiths in this area to see if they are willing to take on a student, apprentice, hang around, gofer whatever you want to call it so that I can improve my craft. I'm not a real outgoing sort, so my question is this: Is there a "protocol" for doing something like this? Is it considered rude to just waltz up in some saddlers shop and ask if he will take you under his wing? Is there a better way to go about it? Just some thoughts that are buzzing through my alleged mind. What are your thoughts on this?

[Prince]

Hmm, I was apprenticed for a few years but it didn't turn out well... it seems most people would rather keep their tricks and secrets for themselves. And the first thing many folks would see when someone asks for training is competition; they dont want to train someone who can compete on their already slim market. Just something to keep in mind I suppose. Not to discourage you though, if you've the resolve to enhance your education via a skilled master, give it a go.

[barra]

No real right or wrong. What technique to use on one teacher may infuriate another. Do you know any of these leathersmiths personally? If so hang around like a bad smell and show that you are as keen as mustard (hmmmm maybe that is only an Australian saying). Do you know others who are real tight with these prospective teachers who may break the ice for you. Show them some of your work and when they see the potential in you they might want to take you on. I think that maybe the biggest turn off for a small one person operation to take on an apprentice is the bureaucratic legal crap an employer has to go thru to employ someone.

Barra

[Luke Hatley]

I have been thinking about approaching some of the leathersmiths in this area to see if they are willing to take on a student, apprentice, hang around, gofer whatever you want to call it so that I can improve my craft. I'm not a real outgoing sort, so my question is this: Is there a "protocol" for doing something like this? Is it considered rude to just waltz up in some saddlers shop and ask if he will take you under his wing? Is there a better way to go about it? Just some thoughts that are buzzing through my alleged mind. What are your thoughts on this?

Grumpy, good luck on doing that. It did not work for me..

What did work for me was deciding what type of leather work i want to do.Went to the Tandy store,

bought the kits, bought books and started to work.

When i ran into problems ,there were two saddlemakers that i could ask questions, they would

answer. And i will always be greatful to those men.

All of this was back in the 60's. there were a lot of leather shops around, but like AZMAL SAID

THOSE WOULD NOT SHARE.

so, decide what you want to make, ask questions, The folks that you are talking to will see that

you are instered in doing leather work and will SHARE WITH YOU.

I f some one approaches me at a pre 1840 event, where i am doing a living history event

and wants to watch me work that is fine, But when he or she ask me how i do a certain thing

then i know they might be instered in that type of leather work and i will share with them..

TAKE ON AN APPRENTICE.....NO. ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS FORM A VERY INSTERED PERSON...YES.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Luke Hatley

[Johanna]

I think a problem is that many leatherworkers are not far enough "in the black" to even think about hiring help. If you approach someone who is willing to teach, you can't exect to be paid, at least not in this vocation. If that's okay with you, then by all means ask- and take some samples or pics of your work so they can get an idea of where you are at, skill-wise, and see that you are serious.

Luke is right- back in the 40s-70s, leatherworkers and saddlers were reluctant to share their secrets. Some might not have wanted competition, some would have not been able to get their price if folks knew how easy it was to sew a seam or set a rivet. I think that old-school silence is over, and this board is evidence of that. People here ask questions and get answers, and no one seems too worried about spilling trade secrets. One leatherworker told me, "Why should I care if I tell how I do it? No one can duplicate MY work!" Makes sense to me.

There's an old saying, "Each one, teach one." If 400 leatherworkers taught 400 leatherworkers who taught 400 more leatherworkers...well, you get the idea. I think there is plenty of work for everybody to go around.

Azmal, it sounds like you had a bad experience with your teacher. Were the terms of your agreement spelled out ahead of time, or did you just fall into a situation? I don't think you need to worry about protecting what you know any more. You've shown an ability to do your own thing, in your own style.

Grumpy, one thing to keep in mind about leatherworkers is that the majority of them are solitary kinds of people. They may not be receptive to having someone in the shop, just because they would be expected to hold conversations. I suspect some folks here type more words than they actually say in the course of a day! So don't get discouraged if no one says, "Yes!" right away. It might not have anything to do with you, just that some folks like to work alone.

That said, if you can possibly attend the IFoLG show in Ft. Worth in October this year, you will meet people from all over the world who share an interest in leather, and will talk for that weekend, anyway! You will be able to put faces to many of the names you see on this board. And when you assess the crowd, you will be surprised at the variety- suits and jeans, old and young, happy and grumpy (oh, wait, those are dwarves!) but you get the idea. Plus you can play with all the vendor stuff!

Let us know how your search goes.

Johanna

[abn]

Grumpy, good luck on doing that. It did not work for me...

TAKE ON AN APPRENTICE.....NO. ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS FORM A VERY INSTERED PERSON...YES.

Grumpy, it never hurts to ask, but in my experience (like Luke's), there are plenty of craftsmen who are willing to answer questions or even do the occasional quick demo, but I haven't found one yet who wants someone hanging around the shop as an apprentice or even as a non-paid helper. I don't believe it has much to do with competition, I just think most are too busy trying to meet pressing deadlines.

Alex

[Cowboy Crafts Online]

Grumpy,

I worked for a guy in OK for 3 years to get started in saddle making. He didnt pay me I just worked there when I could. It took me about 3 months before he let me do any thing. Then he got behind and gave me a chance. Of course he got me started, but I learned alot of things not to do as well. I have had kids come to my shop and want to learn and I have let 2 of them hang out, but neither lasted very long. I think they see me doing things and think wow that look easy and I want to build a saddle or some other thing. Then I set them down rubbing edges doing repair work and practicing stamping and they get bored, I am not teaching them what they want to learn fast enough. Kinda has me brunt out on the whole thing I have other projects to get done and dont have time to waste on someone that is not going to hang around. I think it is probably worse with an older maker, because its happened to them more often. I think just start hanging out in a shop and dont ask to many questions at first and stay out of the way. Pretty soon they will warm up to you and probably start letting you do things. One thing I like is to have some one sweep up and keep the shop clean. If they do that I tend to be more willing to help.

Ashley

[Hoyden]

I am still sew today because someone took less than an hour to answer my questions and gave me some guidance when I was ready to literally throw the sewing machine out the window.

I have been fortunate that I have several people who work with leather that will answer my questions, critique my work and give me guidance.

Joanna - "Each one, teach one" is something that I believe in. A friend who is a phenominal artist said this, and

I've printed it out a few times, make it pretty in photoshop, written it out in Calligraphy and decorated it with celtic work, and look back at it frequently. I've shared it with quite a few people and in turn they have shared it with others.

I believe that no matter how outlandish everyone tells you your dreams are, they are possible. Visualize with crystalline clarity what you want. Write it down. Look for opportunities everywhere. Evict naysayers from your life. Learn, without jealousy, from people who are leading the type of life you want. Teach freely the things you’ve learned to others. Give no voice to the negative. Expect abundance. ~ Marrus

[ETW Grumpy]

Wow, thanks to all for the in depth responses. To clarify: I am willing to work for no pay on my off time just to learn. I guess that's not a true apprenticeship. Sorry to confuse.

Azmal: Sounds like you had a mentor that was more concerned with what he could make from your labors. That's too bad, he really lost a talented artist. Your work rocks!

Barra: "keen as mustard" hmmmmm Yep definitely an Aussie saying. I might know someone that knows probably the best saddlemaker in this area. He does saddles for stars like George Strait. That may be a way to break the ice.

Luke: I have been fortunate to have a couple of folks that I can ask questions of. One of whom is our own beezachoppa. He has been very helpful. I met a saddlemaker here that was very willing to teach, but his shop was about an hours ride one way and I couldn't keep up the commute and get stuff done at home. He has closed his shop now and gone back to work at a "real" job.

Johanna: The each one teach one is a great idea. I e-mailed a leathersmith about his edges and asked how he got 'em as good as he did. He explained step by step how he did it. He also explained that he had a teach one philosophy. As far as solitary people, I are one too. ( I didn't get the nickname Grumpy for no reason). I'm not one that has to fill the silence. i would love to make the IFoLG show in Ft Worth. If I can, I will.

abn: I can see where that would limit the time someone could spend messing with a newbie.

Snakehorse saddler: I wish I lived close to Rosendale !! I believe we could work together.

Hoyden: Sometimes a kind word and a bit of patience at the right time is all it takes. Thank you for the Marrus quote. That's very inspirational.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

At a show once we were told a story about a saddle maker we know who does excellent carving. The guy in the next booth said, "Yup. He came in to my shop when he was just getting started and asked if I would be willing to teach him about leatherwork. I did what I usually do when someone comes in and asks that. I told him to go to Tandy and buy a kit to make a wallet or belt or something. Make it, bring it in to show me, and I will talk to you about it. Usually I never see them again."

"I told that to this guy, and didn't see him for a couple of weeks. I figured he was like the rest. Then he came in an handed me one of the most professionally carved wallets I have ever seen and asked, "Is this good enough to start with?"

Then he went on, "So I taught him everything useful I could...in about an hour. And he has done the rest himself."

I guess the ones who are serious about learning to work in leather will do what they are asked and work on their own too just because they really are interested in the craft, not just "the job". This was one guy's way of weeding out the ones who really didn't want to put much effort in, and yet be able to help the ones who would. In this case, as this guy would readily admit, the pupil surpassed the teacher pretty quickly. But he got the encouragement to continue and some tips that got him going better right off the bat. So helping people get started can have its shining moments. Figuring out who to help, or who you would want to learn from, might be the challenge.

[sheathmaker]

Well I've got a little age on me now and I was/am concerned about not enough young blood coming up behind us older folks into the craft or trade as the case may be. I invited a young man (33) to come to my shop as often as he likes and learn at my elbow. I don't charge anything and so far I've furnished the materials. After about two months he is capable of making a really nice and marketable knife sheath, which is what I specialize in now. His interest has remained high and constant and I feel I have not wasted my time. Having said all of that, I'm not sure I'd do it again, because I really can't get anything done on the days he's in my little shop and my order load is enough to keep me busy seven days a week if I want to work that long.

If you can get someone to take you on, be sure you are serious and keep your interest at a high level.

Paul

Edited September 17, 2007 by sheathmaker

[DCKNIVES]

I have to agree with my buddy Paul.Paul did an great thing taking on his student and it looks like it paid off. But it is hard when your stacked with orders.I have trained several in knifemaking but sadly only 1 has stuck it out.Dave