Juki 1541 or Cowboy 3200

[afdfirefighter]

Good morning. I am about to purchase a sewing machine to start up my leather business. I had originally planned to start cheap (Janome 3200hd) but have since decided if I want to start with a good product I need to sew with one. I will be doing single layer 10oz leather straps for fire department radio straps, chin straps, etc. I am hoping to get opinions on one of these two machines. My Mom has been sewing for years (has very expensive quilting machines) and she thinks the Juki will be more user friendly for me due to the flat top vs the rounded on the Cowboy. Both are walking foot with variable speed servo motors. Can anyone give me some positives and negatives of each and help move me in a direction? Thank you in advance. 

[shoepatcher]

The one thing you forgot to mention is what weight of thread you be sewing with.  That has a baring on which machine to get.

glenn

[kgg]

I do own a Juki 1541S and it can use up to v138 thread where as the CB3200 has a better range of usable threads sizes v69 to V346. Yes the Juki maybe more user friendly but with a flat table top attachment on the Cowboy 3200 you would get the best of both worlds. I would suggest taking / sending a sample of what you are planning to sew to a dealer and ask for suggestions. If you do go with the Juki get the 1541S not the 1541 and yes you are going to pay extra for the safety feature. The "S" stands for safety clutch and will disengage the hook when to much load is put on the hook drive so you won't damage something or the timing.

kgg

[jimi]

If you add a small table to the cylinder arm, then you basically turn it into a flatbed, but you can not turn the flat bed into a cylinder arm.

[afdfirefighter]

2 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

The one thing you forgot to mention is what weight of thread you be sewing with.  That has a baring on which machine to get.

glenn

This is essentially a decorative stitch but I want it to withstand wear and tear. I am not sure what size I will use yet to be completely honest with you. 

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, afdfirefighter said:

This is essentially a decorative stitch but I want it to withstand wear and tear. I am not sure what size I will use yet to be completely honest with you. 

If you use #138 thread, it has 22 pounds breaking strength and the knots are easily hidden inside 8-10 ounce leather straps. Having #207 on top may make it a little more critical when tensioning the threads to bury the knots and won't add to the strength.

[afdfirefighter]

11 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

If you use #138 thread, it has 22 pounds breaking strength and the knots are easily hidden inside 8-10 ounce leather straps. Having #207 on top may make it a little more critical when tensioning the threads to bury the knots and won't add to the strength.

Is the Juki 1541 capable of using #138 and #207 or is the Cowboy the direction I need to be considering?

[kgg]

The Juki will max out with #138 so if you want to go higher the Cowboy 3200 should be the one to considered.

kgg

[dikman]

Perhaps something to consider - you may intend to make smallish straps (for now) but with the 3200 you will have the option of making heavier gear if the opportunity arises. For leatherwork a cylinder arm is generally considered to be the most versatile design and as has been mentioned a small tabletop can be fitted if needed.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, afdfirefighter said:

Is the Juki 1541 capable of using #138 and #207 or is the Cowboy the direction I need to be considering?

You should be looking into the Juki LU-1508NH, which does sew with #207 thread, on top and in the bobbin.

[kgg]

The Juki LU-1508NH is a really nice machine but I guess it would depend on ones budget as I would expect it to be probably around $1300 or $1400 US more then the CB3200.

kgg 

[brmax]

Many times making stern choices in just a few projects is best for your machine decision. With that project choice, many here can say in short order if these are your best choice. I don't think either machine is going to be quick in tension adjustments for the thread extremes they may list.

I like to agree thread size changes are time consuming. Therefore projects are efficient if thread size is consistent.  

Good day

Floyd

[SARK9]

A practical approach you might consider is to get the new CB3200 or similar with warranty and dealer support, then add a flatbed attachment if needed. This gets you sewing with the maximum versatility right off the bat, using a machine that has a large current following and plenty of experienced advisers for your applications. You could take the money you save on the price difference between the 3200 and a new 1508 class machine and look for a serious deal on one of the very popular upholstery-type walking foot flatbed machines, such as the Juki LU-563, the Consew 206RB*, Seiko STH-8BL, or literally dozens of similar good quality models that frequently show up in usable condition at attractive prices. Its not impossible that the dealer you approach for your 3200-type machine would make you a package deal to include an older flatbed candidate, and he will know the how to navigate the huge range of models available. Several of these older machines such as the Juki LU-563 can often use T-210 thread, or be modified to run it. 

-DC

[aroh99]

Like @Wizcrafts mentioned the Juki LU-1508NH will sew 207 both top and bottom.  There is also the cobra class 20 that is rated to take 207 top and bottom.  I Have the LU-1508N which is the previous model of the LU-1508NH and I love it but it can handle 138. whenever I need to sew 207 or 277 I sew on a cobra class 4. The cobra class 20 might be a good option if you need a flat bed sewing machine that will accept 207 thread

[R8R]

Artisan 1508-10H (Juki 1508NH copy) is a less expensive alternate for a flatbed. The motor is decent and the table is very nice. 38mm needle stroke and will sew at least a 207 (up to 277 claimed).

The CB3200 with a flatbed will give you lots of options but at some point you will need to stage out more than one machine to cover what you need to do.

 

[afdfirefighter]

38 minutes ago, R8R said:

Artisan 1508-10H (Juki 1508NH copy) is a less expensive alternate for a flatbed. The motor is decent and the table is very nice. 38mm needle stroke and will sew at least a 207 (up to 277 claimed).

The CB3200 with a flatbed will give you lots of options but at some point you will need to stage out more than one machine to cover what you need to do.

 

If I run the same size thread for all of my items I could get by with one machine right?

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, afdfirefighter said:

If I run the same size thread for all of my items I could get by with one machine right?

In theory. The one machine will need to be capable of sewing from the thinnest to the thickest leather projects, at the stitch length you want, with the thread size you want to use. A Juki LU-1508NH is a heavier than usual upholstery machine that sews from a few ounces up to 1/2 inch of soft to medium temper leather, using thread sizes from 46 through 207. The Cowboy CB3200 is an extra heavy duty machine that doesn't do as well on floppy or thin leather or thin thread, but shines on veg-tan stacks with heavy thread. The CB3200 is guaranteed to sew 1/2 inch, but not below about 6 ounces of veg, with thread sizes 138 through 346. It can go outside those thread sizes by one size with less efficiency.

[DonInReno]

I’m not familiar with thread thickness that is commonly accepted as looking correct in your industry, but I’d investigate that more closely.  For the exact same size and shape of strap one set of customers are almost ablivious to thread size while others see thin thread as lower quality even if the strength of thick thread isn’t needed.   If nothing you sew needs more than 92 or 138 then buying a machine that sews thicker thread isn’t buying you anything.   On the flip side, for instance, the better brands of leather tool bags for carpenters use somewhere between 277 and 346 - I feel bad for small brands trying to enter that market with only 138 and 207 since it’s obvious they are trying to get by with a smaller machine.   Back in my 20’s many wild land fire crews out west often preferred to hem the thin green nomex pants with 138 - major overkill, but it signified a custom hem and looked good to us. Lol

A 1/8 lb mini spool of 207 is only about $5 at a fabric store that caters to professional upholsterers - it’s a good thread to compare with items you want to start making since that’s often the cutoff point between machines as others described above.

[brmax]

    What Don said on thread is a great/scratch that, I mean Excellent point in this conversation.

In bolstering this thread point its a colorful item in the planing, that in time can get much higher (quick) in the budget accounting.  I for one sure did not think beyond a few colors initially. 

In some items a few colors works perfect, and sometimes in the same there can be other conversations. In example the thread contrast or something a bit more blunt .

In usage the 1lb spool is perfect budgeting, even as a mid level priority color ( everybody's is different ). Yet smaller spools are what I need to re spool a bit. This can be a pita so If available same brand etc etc. small spools can be a great addition.  

So beyond and compounding your cost is thread color. Again its a great point brought up, do consider it in your initial budget outline.

 

Good day

Floyd

 

[afdfirefighter]

On 12/15/2018 at 3:52 PM, Wizcrafts said:

In theory. The one machine will need to be capable of sewing from the thinnest to the thickest leather projects, at the stitch length you want, with the thread size you want to use. A Juki LU-1508NH is a heavier than usual upholstery machine that sews from a few ounces up to 1/2 inch of soft to medium temper leather, using thread sizes from 46 through 207. The Cowboy CB3200 is an extra heavy duty machine that doesn't do as well on floppy or thin leather or thin thread, but shines on veg-tan stacks with heavy thread. The CB3200 is guaranteed to sew 1/2 inch, but not below about 6 ounces of veg, with thread sizes 138 through 346. It can go outside those thread sizes by one size with less efficiency.

That is great to know! I don't see myself going below the 6oz leather so I am leaning towards the CB3200. Thinnest I would go would be a belt. What thickness are those normally?

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, afdfirefighter said:

That is great to know! I don't see myself going below the 6oz leather so I am leaning towards the CB3200. Thinnest I would go would be a belt. What thickness are those normally?

It depends on who you are targeting your belts to. Normally, hand carved or stamped belts are between 8 and 10 ounces before stamping. I sew those with #138 thread. This thread has 22 pounds test.

Unless a customer wants a carved or stamped belt, I usually make bridle leather belts which range from 13 ounces up to 15 ounces, cut from backs. The heavier weights are great for people carrying guns in holsters on their belt. I use contrasting edge, and/or fishtail stitching as an upsell option and use either #207 or #277 thread on top and 207 in the bobbin.

[afdfirefighter]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

It depends on who you are targeting your belts to. Normally, hand carved or stamped belts are between 8 and 10 ounces before stamping. I sew those with #138 thread. This thread has 22 pounds test.

Unless a customer wants a carved or stamped belt, I usually make bridle leather belts which range from 13 ounces up to 15 ounces, cut from backs. The heavier weights are great for people carrying guns in holsters on their belt. I use contrasting edge, and/or fishtail stitching as an upsell option and use either #207 or #277 thread on top and 207 in the bobbin.

My main product will be similar to this and will be a 10-11 ounce and i plan to do everything in 207 thread. That seems to be the industry norm.