29K4 wobbly shuttle carrier

[plinkercases]

So I have completed the cosmetic de-gunk and clean of my old patcher and now to get it sewing I noticed the old owner had installed a small/thin metal  band as a sort of flat spring which appears to be there to keep the shuttle carrier stable and pushed towards the needle. Without it absolutely no luck picking up the lower thread and with it vary random luck.

Without the spring the carrier wobbles more than I suspect it should so I believe the teeth on it and or the rack below are worn. I also believe there is to be a set screen on the lower front of the arm that appears to have been removed the hole has some more metal piece and filler in/round it (I assume to repair some damage to the tip of the arm).

So how to I remove the carrier and rack (?)  below and then confirm exactly which parts to order from College? it came with a piece installed that has the full round bottom (81953) and one in the box with the notch out of it (8605) attached to a part which look like either 82029 or 33513.

I have not taken anything apart mechanically so I haven't put it back together wrong... its just seems to have been rode hard and but wet (and grimmy)

Any guidance would be appreciated... it is so close to working!

Murray

[Constabulary]

Do not expect that any of the parts from College (Sewing) will fit for the century old patchers gear box - neither pinions, nor racks are the same - different size and different teeth pattern - the parts do not work!

You remove the parts from the underside. There is a plate that covers the gear box and serves as a bushing for the 2 pinions.

To give you a rough idea how the different pinions look

• #1 is for 29K1 - 29K33 (approx)
• #2 is for 29K51 - 29K56 (approx)
• #3 is for 29K60 - 2973 (approx)

#1 is what you need and #3 is what the Chinese 29K71-29K73 clones have and you get from College sewing.

Shuttle carriers look the same but have screw holes in different positions.

Honestly - rip apart you patcher and look for a better one and keep some spare parts. It´s just not worth the time and money when a century old patcher is as badly worn as yours is. Sad but true.

If you want to give it a try go ahead but don´t expect too much. When a gearbox is worn out like yours guess how the condition of all the rollers and and cams are (machine 4 different rollers and 3 cams) - not to mention all the other parts

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

regrading shuttle carrier:

• #1 is Singer 82117 for 29K71 / K73
• #2 is Singer 8605 for 29K1, K3, K4 and the like

They could fit but the screw holes tell a different story - pretty obvious, right?

But this is just what I have and what I can compare and I don´t know if there have been other differences over the years... I don´t know the whole Singer patcher (and parts) story, I just scratched the surface.

Let me check some measures again...
 

 

 

EDIT:

okay - checked another 8605 shuttle carrier I have - the holes are approx the same as with the 82117 - approx 7mm from the rim to the center of the hole

Seems the 8605 I have shown in the picture above is modified (for what ever reason).

But still - if I had a worn out patcher like yours I would not spend time an money - sorry to say that!

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Constabulary

[plinkercases]

How do I get the part out to get an eyeball on them?

With no apparent set screw does it drive up from the bottom? I will tip her over and see what I can do from the bottom.

Must admit not a reply I needed to start my day but I respect your experience.

as fro College parts... the bobbins I order don't work and the tension discs were too thick fro the top tension assembly so I rescued the old ones.

[jimi]

That wobble could be from the previous owner putting in a new shuttle carrier that has the hole a little lower, like the one in Folkers picture. could you post a picture of the one in the box? I had to weld the hole from the one from college sewing and reposition it for my old 29k1 arm, like folker said you wont find these parts around very easy. the one you refer to in the picture with the solid base 81953 is for the large shuttle version which uses i think the pinons 82029 and 81956 in your parts illustration. i think your 29k4 would have used the 33513 and one of the other two pinons. What i do remember is my 29k12 bottom had the bottom three pinons in it and no short rack.have a look underneath and see whats going on first but be carefull the pinons could fall out.

[plinkercases]

I got under the hood and found that the previous owner had also used thin brass strap to make springs/spacers to try to keep inward pressure on the racks and pinons. Perhaps the wear on the arm casting coupled woth the wear on the teeth just added up to a wobbler. I will clean the parts that came out and psot pics.. i also suspect the tolerance between the post on the carrior/pinion assembly and the hole they sit in has opened up as well.

Have to admit the fellas spring system is clever and aparently worked for some time.. perhaps with some voodoo babying by the operator... it came you me running free and with a needle and loaded bobbin inside as if it was used up to the day they stopped using it so to speak.

This my be a challenge I give my ecellent machinist friends.

 

[catskin]

Some body made the parts to build that machine. So while it might not be cost effective to hire someone to make them there is no reason they could not be made by a person that likes to machine.  And where for example a hole is worn bigger in the casting ( frame ) make the part over size that goes in.  I realize this might sound unreasonable to some it would be possible.

[plinkercases]

I have a few friends who take this on as a matter of pride and rise to the challenge of " nah i dont think it cam be done...." and my thoughts exactly on trying to match the new tolerances of the worn out chasis. More will be revealed. Luckily it really is just a project machine for fun.

 

[DonInReno]

I should say I don’t even know how to thread a patcher, let alone troubleshoot it, but as to the idea of making parts it’s probably not a bad idea to look up rack/gear dimensions in a Machinist’s Handbook to see if it’s a standard industrial size or an oddball tooth shape Singer came up with.  There are a number of videos showing how replacement gears are cut with milling machine and rotary dividing head - even with good equipment it seems pretty time consuming.  I’ll bet more than one person has tried this with 29-4 patcher gears, and there’s probably a few reasons those parts aren’t readily available, cost being the main hurdle.

[plinkercases]

Well as in say I know guys who would make a part for an airgun which is already available OEM and after market just to test themselves. I know guys casting and machining parts out of JB weld!!!!

[shoepatcher]

Remember , if you set up for one make 5.  Most of the cost in machining is set up and there are guys looking for parts all the time.

glenn

[plinkercases]

2 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Remember , if you set up for one make 5.  Most of the cost in machining is set up and there are guys looking for parts all the time.

glenn

Yup.

[catskin]

Maybe NOT 5 but 25 or 50!!!!!  Cost recovery.

[shoepatcher]

Yes     They will sell if not too expensive.  No one making them and they are needed!

glenn

[plinkercases]

Can i see a pic of the long rack, pinion closest to the right and the bobbin carrier with with needle either full up or full down so i know how the go back in and will cycle properly?

Mine plopped out before i could take note..

 

[jimi]

1 hour ago, shoepatcher said:

They will sell if not too expensive

??? what is too expensive???

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, jimi said:

??? what is too expensive???

A buck three eighty nine is too much! ;-)

[jimi]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

A buck three eighty nine is too much! ;-)

 is that ask a stupid question get a silly answer????

[plinkercases]

don't need pictures thanks as I stumbled on this video specific to the 29K4 and also shows what the tolerance should be!