Sticking with chisels instead of pricking irons...

[robs456]

8 hours ago, Diversiforge said:

What results do you get from an awl that you don't get from the chisels?

For starters, consistency in exit hole size. And for those that hammer the chisel all through to the prongs: there are times the exit hole should be smaller, so I'll add flexibility as well. In hole size too, though you can always get another size chisel I guess. Then there's the other stuff like angles etc, and the more custom thingies like cylinders.

[splinters]

On 12/27/2018 at 5:07 PM, robs456 said:

This is what I do. Though I jokingly tag my insta-pics with #nostitchingchisel I do use it for marking. But nowadays always use the awl for piercing, because of results mainly.
Stitching chisels can be good for beginners, I started with awl only, then wanted to 'quickly improve' my stitching in the way I saw all the Japanese guys on YT and IG doing so got me some chisels. They improved things but after using them for a while I saw I didn't like the end result, even after trying many different ways of using them. So I went back to the awl and practiced, something I hear people can't be bothered with nowadays, but kept the chisel for marking.

I like this approach but having no experience I’ll decide what works for me after some practice sessions which I’ll incorporate with getting up to speed with saddle stitching practice too. Back in the day I first started learning we only used overstitch wheels and an awl to accomplish the mission. (Long before the Internet and I had not heard of pricking irons in those days.) Just starting up again after a lay off and looking forward to joining you all again even though I’m long over the hill...... lol.

Edited January 4, 2019 by splinters

[GeneH]

It would really cool if those of you with multiple tools to post pictures showing the difference of the hole and stitching quality and reference.  Maybe even using unfinished leather so it is even easier to see raw differences between your pricking iron or chisel, and awl. Also, when your leather is 3 layers of 8 oz (3/8 inch) think, do you change your technique?

Without hijacking your thread, here's why I ask: Just getting started I notice I have larger gaps or seeing the slits from my awl more than I expected, and am trying to resolve the contradiction of adequate slit size and ability to get the needle and thread through. [I have a topic started already over in "critique..." because I'm seeking answers... :-)  ]

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by GeneH

[Tugadude]

Watch Nigel Armitage's review videos on his youtube channel.  He demonstrates nearly all of the popular chisels and irons, discusses pros and cons, which thread size matches best, etc.. He also demonstrates how to go through several layers with chisels by punching them one at a time then aligning them.  One of the posters above mentioned this as a limitation of chisels, but it doesn't have to be.

[GeneH]

If Armitage has a video showing apples-to-apples difference of chisels and awls I must have missed it. I’ll go back and look.

[GeneH]

I went back and reviewed Armitages videos again, picking up a lot of info that I had previously missed. Using the same chisel, actually causing the slit to be opposite each  side, and still making a nice stitch. I bet if I watched enough of his videos now I could see the differences between awl-only and chiseled stitching.

Niel did go on to mention that if he was doing saddles or harnesses the chisel wouldn't be sufficient because the stitching isn't secure enough, but for less critical applications like bags, sheaths, maybe holsters it's fine.

Thanks for helping out (on my similar posts, 2 different and related threads) 

[scrapyarddog]

Nigel’s reviews are really helpful, and after taking one of his classes and had the opportunity to use some different tools, my opinion changed a bit.

 

In terms of consistency and slanting, there’s not much difference between iron and chisel. However, chisels create bigger holes, and this causes some mostly aesthetic issues:

 

1. Finer threads: when you’re using finer threads, for example Au Chinois 832 to 532, the threads will not fill the holes created by a diamond chisel, and with linen threads, the movement of threads might increase wear and tear. The bottomline is it’s very ugly. I was mostly using 0.8mm threads and bigger before I started using irons so it wasn’t this downside of using diamond chisels wasn’t obvious to me back then.

 

If you’re using larger threads, chisels work better because, well, they produce larger holes. I tried 332 on KS 7 SPI and it was a miserable experience.

 

2. Front and Back difference: diamond shape chisels create pretty brutal exits (blasts?). In cases where the backside isn’t visible, this is not a concern, but when both sides are visible, irons or even an awl (granted you have good skills) do a much better job because irons are thinner and the shapes are either just slits (minimal entry/exit) or more rounded.

 

3. Inverse available: there are situations where you have to pre-punch or mark both surface sides the leather/leathers, and it’s rare (I’ve never seen one) that diamond chisels have inverse sets, but irons do, and that guarantees both sides of the stitches look perfect. To be honest, you can still stitch without inverse, but it doesn’t look good. So again, this is a matter of aesthetics.

 

4. Pull out: chisels are bulkier, and it’s harder to pull out when it penetrates the leather deeply. Difficulty of pulling out sometimes introduces distortion to the holes, and that leads to inconsistency in the stitches.

 

 

I’ve used only 4 types of irons: Crimson, Doldoki, Amy Roke, KS. Doldoki does a good job, but it’s rather expensive, and at the price point, I might just go with Blanchard (never used one though). Crimson is fine and cheaper but the entries are a little more rounded due to the shape of the teeth, nothing wrong about it but I prefer minimal impact on the surface of the leather. Amy Roke creates smaller entries but I’m not entirely sold on it. KS does a great job, it’s sharp (punches through with ease), the entries are very small (the exits are small too, sometimes I can’t find it), the teeth can be replaced at a reasonable cost. You can order KS directly online or through shops like RML or Fine Leatherworking. The upside of ordering directly is you can choose the number of teeth you want and I think lead time is 4-6 weeks? The downside is the iron is damaged during shipping, KS is not responsible for it. So, if you’re not in a hurry, I’d suggesting giving RML and FLW some business. They’re both very awesome.