How to Connect a Quick Rotan setup

[jegenes]

Hi all,

I picked up an Adler 767-fa-363 compound feed machine, a parts project. I have the machine set up okay, but need to finish attaching all the electronic connections. I have the sewing machine manual, but not one for the digital motor setup.

Not sure which model it is, but it's an older Quick Rotan. I think it might be a Synchro 5040, but not sure. Can't really read the numbers on the various plates, but I've come up with some of these:

AB 4/5     1089       0a05aJ     A50501, or A50901

Here are some pics. If anyone can steer me toward a manual for connecting all the plugs, I'd greatly appreciate it. I think I have them correct, but when I turn it on, the main switchbox just buzzes, and nothing comes on.

Oh, and I'm in New Zealand, so parts aren't exactly plentiful here [grin].

[Constabulary]

I understand that these bells and whistle motors are tempting to have them up and running but trust me - they can be a pain if they need support. I have tried it twice some years ago - no luck.

Honestly - get rid of it an buy a new Servo motor! I think the higher class HoShing Servos can control some of the "Bells & Whistles" if you really need them. If not buy a plain Servo motor + speed reducer from one of the well known dealers. Its most likely cheaper than buying (probably importing) some of the parts and question remains - will they run?

I also haven´t yet heard of anyone who was able to "revitalize" these od electronic clunkers for reasonable money. If you run a factory it´s probably a different story but as a hobbyist or small business these things are dead and not worth investing time & money.

My 2 cents

Edited January 26, 2019 by Constabulary

[alpha2]

Just looking at the pics, it looks like the challenge of a lifetime! I think if they really tried, they could have added a couple more components to that circus. 

I had a radio system removed from an old Mercedes Benz 400E, when they got done, I had at least 20 pounds of components from all over the car in a box. Reminds me of that.

I do like the leather bags and pockets hanging on the front, though!

Jeff

[jegenes]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm familiar with needle positioning machines, as I had a saddle shop for a long time and did a lot of high end production for the fashion industry. I had Pffaf, Adler, Mitsubishi, Singer, and other machines of all sorts, some with servo motors. That was in the US, where parts and service are plentiful (and cheap). In this case, here in New Zealand, there isn't much choice and shipping costs can become a huge factor. I was just trying to see if this old beast could be resurrected. I'll keep chipping away, but am not opposed to just replacing the system with a simple motor and clutch if need be. And you're right, Jeff, it's a circus [grin]. I'm pretty sure I now have it all hooked up correctly, but still now power to the modules. So, I'll make a few calls/emails and if they don't work out, I'll look for a replacement drive system for it. The machine head is in great shape. I was able to get some stitching guides for it, along with prewound bobbins and other goodies, so I'm almost set to go. Even though I do like the servo motors and the air powered foot lifters, I learned the old fashioned way (first hand stitching, then old harness machines and Singer 31-20's, etc), so I'm not afraid of "old school".

Constabulary: The things I'd like it to do are:
      --to lift the foot when I back-pedal the treadle.

      --do reverse stitching and backtacks (right now, it has electronic controls for these, but does have a manual lever for backstitching... I can modify that to work)

I can live without either of these, but it'd be good to know whether a new motor system would provide them. Thanks for that tip

best,   --john

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by jegenes
addition

[chrisash]

Would it be three phase?

[jegenes]

Hi chrisash,

No, it's single phase, 220 Volt, which is normal household current here in NZ. But that's a good point, and I'll keep it in mind when looking for another motor

[jegenes]

The machine has a pneumatic foot lifter that is operated with a knee lever switch, which is already hooked up. If I get a servo motor I assume I'll need to figure out how to power that switch from the motor's controller somehow. I can't seem to find manuals on those Hohsing servos, or on the Skyrit ones on Aliexpress. I'm looking at a 750 watt motor for around $200 (free shipping to NZ), but I can't tell if the controller has extra plugs to power foot lifts, etc. Don't want to start messing with the mechanicals on the machine head, as they seem to be okay. Any ideas? Thanks. 

 

--john

[Constabulary]

For $200 most likely not - the HoHsing are more expensive. I have no experience with higher class motors as I´m rather a low tech fan.

Maybe their website gives you an idea of what their motors can do or not

http://www.hohsing.com/index.php/en/ac-servo-motor-en

[jegenes]

Thanks. I'm still nosing around, trying to figure things out. Since I can get an 800-watt, 240 volt servo motor on AliExpress for about $200, I'll probably go with that. This machine has a pneumatic foot lifter that is powered by the Quick Rotan controller. So if I replace the controller, I'm not sure if the new one will be able to send voltage (I don't know what the rating is...) to the switch that operates the foot lift. The switch is on a knee lever and connects to the control box via a multipin connector. If I know what the voltage/power is, I can probably power it from the new control box. I'm still checking that out.

[Constabulary]

You get a good motor overview on the KEYSEW website - they have all kind of motors from clutch motors and low end servo to high end servo:

https://store.keysew.com/parts/industrial-sewing-machine-motors

this one could probably be an option:

https://store.keysew.com/sp-1100-npfl

[dikman]

I have three Skyrit motors - 2 x 550w, 1 x 750w - and on mine at least there's no output to control what you want to do.

[mb5]

This is the closest I have found.  It is for Pfaff, not Adler, but maybe it can help.

https://sicistroje.rajce.idnes.cz/Manual_QUICK_Digital/

[jegenes]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. Sorry, have been out of touch for a bit.

mb5: thanks for the manual. It's pretty close to what I have, so I'll download those pics.

Constabulary: thanks for the tip to that website. That looks like the motor I need, except for a problem: It's 110 volt. I need a 240 volt unit. I don't see any servo motors for 240 volt systems. Amazingly, they charge less than $10 to ship it to New Zealand. Might be that it's drop-shipped from China, but I don't know. I'll send them an email and see if they have any 1 hp servo motors that use 240 volts. Thanks.
 

[Constabulary]

You at least know the models you could look for. Servo motors come with different voltage you may find the same models with 220V / 240V but keep in mind 220V in the US is 3 phase not single phase as in the EU / NZ or other countries.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

8 hours ago, Constabulary said:

You at least know the models you could look for. Servo motors come with different voltage you may find the same models with 220V / 240V but keep in mind 220V in the US is 3 phase not single phase as in the EU / NZ or other countries.

We have all three; 110V Single phase, 220V Single phase, and 220V three phase.

Used to be every factory machine was 220V three phase, now everyone want's 110V single phase and the new Efka motors DC1550AB321 and DC1280AB620A only come available in 220V single phase.

[jegenes]

Constabulary: Yes, I know what to look for. Thanks for the tips.
Gregg: yes, when I had my saddle shop in New Mexico many years ago, I had Efka servo motors on some of my flatbed machines. They were 220 volt, single phase. Here in NZ it's all 220 volt, and household current is single phase. Industrial stuff can be 3-phase, as well.

And on a completely different subject, why am I not being notified of responses to this thread? (I have it turned on...) Just wondering if there's some forum setting I'm missing somewhere. Thanks.

[jegenes]

@Gregg From Keystone Sewing: Gregg, does this motor (the one Constabulary mentioned) come in 220V, single phase? If so, is there a price difference between it and the 110 volt model?
 

https://store.keysew.com/sp-1100-npfl 

[Brooksie]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:08 PM, jegenes said:

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm familiar with needle positioning machines, as I had a saddle shop for a long time and did a lot of high end production for the fashion industry. I had Pffaf, Adler, Mitsubishi, Singer, and other machines of all sorts, some with servo motors. That was in the US, where parts and service are plentiful (and cheap). In this case, here in New Zealand, there isn't much choice and shipping costs can become a huge factor. I was just trying to see if this old beast could be resurrected. I'll keep chipping away, but am not opposed to just replacing the system with a simple motor and clutch if need be. And you're right, Jeff, it's a circus [grin]. I'm pretty sure I now have it all hooked up correctly, but still now power to the modules. So, I'll make a few calls/emails and if they don't work out, I'll look for a replacement drive system for it. The machine head is in great shape. I was able to get some stitching guides for it, along with prewound bobbins and other goodies, so I'm almost set to go. Even though I do like the servo motors and the air powered foot lifters, I learned the old fashioned way (first hand stitching, then old harness machines and Singer 31-20's, etc), so I'm not afraid of "old school".

Constabulary: The things I'd like it to do are:
      --to lift the foot when I back-pedal the treadle.

      --do reverse stitching and backtacks (right now, it has electronic controls for these, but does have a manual lever for backstitching... I can modify that to work)

I can live without either of these, but it'd be good to know whether a new motor system would provide them. Thanks for that tip

best,   --john

 

 

Any luck? I'm in the same boat with a dead mother board. I am told that for $1300 cdn I can have a new efka and about 4 hours rewiring plug connectors. My tech says keep it original, but I say it just needs to work...without all the programs. No reverse lever and thread trimming are tricky things to have built into a motor. Have you had any luck?

 

James

Edited November 16, 2020 by Brooksie
entered my comment twice

[jegenes]

James:
I ended up getting a servomotor from Aliexpress (around $200, free shipping here to New Zealand). It works fine. It's 750W :  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1872320341.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d53T3WP 

I still don't have an automatic foot lifter or backstitching, but I can live without them. I put a manual knee lifter on it, which is fine. I don't use the auto thread cutter, so that's no big deal for me. The machine is stitching great now.

I wouldn't bother trying to keep your old motor and motherboard. They're basically boat anchors now. The new motors are very small and lightweight, and very powerful. Make sure you get the right pulley(s) for speed reduction, if you need that. I'd say that $1,300 is too much to pay for that, but I might be wrong. The installation of the new servomotor is usually straightforward and simple, with some adjustments, etc. Good luck with it.

[dikman]

My Skyrit's are from Lishui and I've been happy with them.

[ZIIK]

I know I'm a bit late to the party in this case. But I'll chime in in case anyone has use for it in the future.

In my view, the easiest way to keep using a pneumatic presser foot lifter when switching to a basic servo is to remove the electro-mechanic components such as solenoids etcetera from the system and replace them with mechanically activated valves. You could connect the valve to the back stroke at the foot pedal or underneath the table top at the throttle controller where it is pushed upwards. The second option would be to have a pneumatic "foot button" that raises the presser foot. 

There are numerous ways to solve it in a low tech way.

An automatic foot lifter could also be achieved through a pull activated valve on the pedal pull rod if that would be preferable.

Some ideas to get people going.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ZIIK

[Brooksie]

Thank Ziik for the input. I think you help shed light on a simple problem. Up until lately I was unaware of these mechanical activated solenoids. Fun time aside, I just want to get things working. It leaves more free space in the mind for play.