Strongest Adhesion But Most Flexible Contact Cement For Leather

[Toddo]

I'm in the process of making a black powder kit bag and I plan on lining the inside of the bag with black felt. I'm looking for the strongest but most flexible contact cement. I heard mention here on another thread that Weldwood Contact Cement works great so I went and bought some at Home Depot. It says "Flexible Bond" on the outside of the can but that stuff is used to stick laminates down for countertops and so forth and I know from experience that kind of glue dries very hard like dried resin and is not flexible AT ALL. I called the 1-800 number on the can for info and they confirmed that Weldwood dries RIGID. That would have been a total disaster if I had used that stuff. I wonder why anyone was mentioning it here except that maybe they were using it to glue leather together for a rigid application.

Since I will be lining the bag with felt the front flap is one area that will constantly be flexed. I do not intend to sew the border of the front flap to the felt lining underneath. The rest of the lining in the interior of the bag will be sewed through, but the front flap will not be sewed through and it's a huge area in relation to the rest of the piece. I seriously doubt Elmers Rubber Cement will hold like I need it to. I have seen the Tandy leather glue. Should I use that or is there something superior to that? It's gotta hold tough as nails for permanent and stay totally flexible.

[Rockoboy]

Have you consider rubber cement as used for patching car tyres?

I think that dries quite flexible and works like contact cement. You can apply to one surface then immediately position the other surface, OR you can apply to both surfaces and allow it to tack-off before assembling the components. 

I think either method is much improved by clamping or weigh applied to increase the adhesion.

[Toddo]

7 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

Have you consider rubber cement as used for patching car tyres?

I think that dries quite flexible and works like contact cement. You can apply to one surface then immediately position the other surface, OR you can apply to both surfaces and allow it to tack-off before assembling the components. 

I think either method is much improved by clamping or weigh applied to increase the adhesion.

I have not thought of the tire patch cement. I guess I could experiment with that and see how it holds. I would need about six tubes of that stuff if it works. I'll be needing to cover an area about 9" wide by about 30" in length.

There's gotta be something super strong but stays flexible out there. I can't be the first one ever to need something like this for leather work bonding.

[heydox]

I would suggest Barge all-purpose cement. I have used it for years to attach fabric linings and never had any complaints. It is definitely a flexible adhesive. 

If I can also make another suggestion... when you do glue your felt to the leather I’d recommend positioning the pieces as if the flap were half-opened. If you glue the pieces flat and then bend the flap completely closed I’m imagining the felt will pucker along the bend in the flap. 

[Toddo]

10 minutes ago, heydox said:

I would suggest Barge all-purpose cement. I have used it for years to attach fabric linings and never had any complaints. It is definitely a flexible adhesive. 

If I can also make another suggestion... when you do glue your felt to the leather I’d recommend positioning the pieces as if the flap were half-opened. If you glue the pieces flat and then bend the flap completely closed I’m imagining the felt will pucker along the bend in the flap. 

Thanks for the tip

[LatigoAmigo]

8 hours ago, Toddo said:

Weldwood Contact Cement

I have used this product before and can say that when laminating felt to leather, it will be completely flexible. I have used various types of adhesive, and had varying results, mostly depending on the leather's ability to absorb the adhesive. One solution you might try is iron-on adhesive. You can find it available on Amazon. It should work like a charm. The felt is so soft and pliable that you shouldn't have any problems with the material buckling in the fold of your bag.

[Toddo]

19 minutes ago, LatigoAmigo said:

I have used this product before and can say that when laminating felt to leather, it will be completely flexible. I have used various types of adhesive, and had varying results, mostly depending on the leather's ability to absorb the adhesive. One solution you might try is iron-on adhesive. You can find it available on Amazon. It should work like a charm. The felt is so soft and pliable that you shouldn't have any problems with the material buckling in the fold of your bag.

You're saying Weldwood Contact Cement dries flexible? I've heard some conflicting things. If I use this stuff and it dries to a rigid state the work I've done will be trashed. Are you absolutely sure about this?

I guess there's only one thing I can do really. Buy the smallest amount of Weldwood Cement I can and test it first. I really wanted to use Weldwood as the things I've heard is that once it dries you can't rip the pieces apart that were glued together. And a quart of Barge is like $30 compared to a quart of Weldwood at $15 so I would rather use Weldwood if possible. I guess I can get a small tube of Barge also and test both of them to see which one works best. I will definitely post back with the results. I plan on appling two coats to both sides of my test pieces of both brands and them letting them dry for an entire week to be thorough.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Toddo

[LatigoAmigo]

34 minutes ago, Toddo said:

I plan on applying two coats to both sides of my test pieces of both brands and them letting them dry for an entire week to be thorough.

This is clearly overdoing it. Since this is just your lining, you don't need to do two layers. Try this: go to Home Depot and buy the little bottle of Wedgewood Cement with the red label. Avoid the green label, it doesn't work as well. The little bottle is probably less than $5. Then test your process on a scrap piece of leather, while following the instructions on the bottle. You will find the materials will have set up in hours and be fully cured in one day.

[johnv474]

No adhesive will make up for not sewing.

If you want an adhesive for leather and fabric that is both strong and flexible, look for those adhesives used in shoemaking.  Since shoes and boots have to flex and stay attached, those adhesives have been developed specifically for such an application.  These are most commonly your neoprene-based contact cements: Barge APC, Masters All Purpose Cement, Du-All 88, Jet Set, etc.  A quart should cost about $20, unless you shop at triple-markup retail hobby franchises.

Weldwood is also a neoprene based contact cement and whoever said it dries rigid is using that terminology wrong.

Edited March 3, 2019 by johnv474
typo

[TargetRockLeather]

I use both DAP Weldwood and Barge cement. In my opinion they are equally flexible, not rigid at all. You can get a 3oz bottle of Weldwood at Home Depot for about $7.00. As mentioned in previous posts, try it on some scrap leather and you will probably be satisfied with the results.

[JLSleather]

I really must try that weldwood folks talk about.  But I still have some this other stuff left, so I've had it in mind to pick up the weldwood next time I'm around a store.  Meanwhile, I been usin' this Renia stuff. Green label. Works great - no complaints at all.  Used by shoe / boot folk for a good while, so it certainly should hold belts/holsters/wallets. Tuolene free.

 

 

[Toddo]

Well I got a little bottle of the Weldwood from Home Depot and I got my test piece glued up tonight. Right now the piece has got a little stiffness to it but it looks like I could bend it easily. It's not totally floppy like it was before I glued the felt to it. It's 6-7oz leather and I did apply two coats to both pieces letting the first coat dry like 25 minutes before I applied the second coat. The reason I wanna do the overkill on the test piece is that I want to intentionally try to make this glue make the piece stiff by applying the double coat and letting it dry for days and even up to a week. If I can make this glue make the test piece stiff by any means then this glue is not what I'm looking for. I'm hoping this bag will be around for 100 years so I really do want give the glue a thorough test. 100 years is a long time for that glue to get hardened up and stiff.

[chrisash]

Somehow i doubt that felt will have a very long life before it looks tatty with wear, have you thought of lining with thin leather, much more hard wearing

[Dun]

I’m a little confused. Are you just making a bag with soft closure flap covering the bag?

 

if so, can you just leave the top flap unlined? 6 oz leather is plenty strong so why even add a glue? 

If not I’d suggest just glue and stitching the edges, leaving the rest to flex freely without glue in the middle of the bending flap. 

You might have problems getting a substance like modern glue, that is designed to dry out with air contact and loose it’s liquid state, to last 100 years. Leather is porous, which is why it needs to be kept waxed to keep out moisture. 

Most belts are glued with the intention of flexing, but not also intended for that kind of duration 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Dun

[Tugadude]

I've been in the construction chemicals business for a long time and have sold various adhesives during my tenure.  I know of no adhesive that will be reliable 100 years from now.  I agree with the above that felt is probably not your best option here.  If you want long term durability and the bag is  really going to be used, a leather lining is the way to go.  Folks here glue flaps of all sorts with Weldwood and Barge cements all the time and I've never heard of anyone complaining about the adhesive being too stiff.  Never happened in my work either.  I think you are right in testing what is out there but you might be overthinking this a bit.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

I've been in the construction chemicals business for a long time and have sold various adhesives during my tenure.  I know of no adhesive that will be reliable 100 years from now. 

I have.     But you need to go back about 1000 years to find out how its made.     It was used on some Viking leather items found in excavations in Dublin. It wasn't in the remit of the arckies to discover what the glue is/was, all they could say was it seemed to be pine tree tar and propolis and 'other' constituents

btw, I agree that felt is wrong for the lining

[Tugadude]

Maybe I should have said I know of no adhesive commonly available...besides, how will we know?

[fredk]

23 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Maybe I should have said I know of no adhesive commonly available...besides, how will we know?

Dunno bout you, I plan to be around for a looooong time yet! 

[Toddo]

14 hours ago, Dun said:

I’m a little confused. Are you just making a bag with soft closure flap covering the bag?

 

if so, can you just leave the top flap unlined? 6 oz leather is plenty strong so why even add a glue? 

If not I’d suggest just glue and stitching the edges, leaving the rest to flex freely without glue in the middle of the bending flap. 

You might have problems getting a substance like modern glue, that is designed to dry out with air contact and loose it’s liquid state, to last 100 years. Leather is porous, which is why it needs to be kept waxed to keep out moisture. 

Most belts are glued with the intention of flexing, but not also intended for that kind of duration 

 

It's gonna be a hybrid between this...

and this....

 

 

Here are the patterns I made for it...

And I'm gonna tool this design on the front flap...

And use this for the front flap closure button that will have a rawhide string coming from the bottom of the bag that will wrap around it to secure the front flap...

 

and.... it's gonna have black felt lining the inside. The side panels are gonna be a sandwich of 3 pieces. The interior board is 1/16" thick acrylic board and the side panel back will having sewing tabs that bend forward to sew to the body of the bag. Which will set the side panels in just about a 1/4" so the top flap completely covers the sides.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Toddo

[Mark842]

I Use the original Weldwood Contact cement everyday on a flexible product between to layers of 9 ounce latigo before sewing. It absolutely dries flexible. Barge does also, and I suspect Barge has a stronger bond but I don't know for sure as I usually sew the laigo pieces I glue within an hour of gluing them. I have pulled apart two pieces of oil tanned within a half hour of gluing with Weldwood and got them apart. I have tried to do so in the past using Barge and was not able to pull the pieces apart. Out of cusriousity, since my project was already ruined, I put the leather in a vise and grabbed the other half with pliers. It actually ripped the suede side of a 5 ounce oil tanned partly off before I got tired of tugging on it.

 I use the weldwood more often because it doesn't stink to high heavens and not everything needs a super strong grip.

[Toddo]

13 hours ago, Tugadude said:

I've been in the construction chemicals business for a long time and have sold various adhesives during my tenure.  I know of no adhesive that will be reliable 100 years from now.  I agree with the above that felt is probably not your best option here.  If you want long term durability and the bag is  really going to be used, a leather lining is the way to go.  Folks here glue flaps of all sorts with Weldwood and Barge cements all the time and I've never heard of anyone complaining about the adhesive being too stiff.  Never happened in my work either.  I think you are right in testing what is out there but you might be overthinking this a bit.

Well after a 24 hour wait I tested my Weldwood test piece for adhesion and flexibility. Adhesion factor is A++. You can't rip the felt off without also pulling some of the leather off. 100% happy with that. I can't see that felt ever coming of that thing unless someone intentionally tries to pull it off with a pair of pliers. As for flexibility, I'm like about 90% happy with it. It' no where near as rigid as it seemed that Weldwood 1-800 info line guy inferred. I was imagining the thing drying stiff as a piece of glass after talking to him. It's actually fairly flexible. It  won't ever be as floppy and flexible as a well worn piece of naked leather. Like I said, I'm about 90% happy with. I think it's gonna make it look (and feel) awesome. It'll definitely be unique. I guess if the Weldwood doesn't hold up for an entire 100 years someone can do a repair sew along the border of the flap.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Toddo

[Joanne803]

I worked in the costume department of a large summer theatre for a number of years. It had a full time shoemaker on staff and he used only Barge. (I'm guessing it was Barge original formula, as there was only one type back then.) The theatre used to get it in gallon cans. Barge is the "go-to" glue for shoemakers and cobblers, even today, so it has to be strong and flexible.

[Rahere]

The land of latex workers have looked for something which would glue sheet latex which has been surface-filled with chlorine molecules, "Chlorination", filling in the holes on the surface which create the rubbery friction. The headache is that that roughness was what rubber cement, otherwise known as contact adhesive, gets a grip onto. Nothing would glue it reliably, even sanding it to roughen the surface. Not ever Barge would work.
Then last year, I suggested what cobblers use to hold shoe soles on around here, Renia Colle de Cologne. The company which invented chlorination tried it - and you don't get a more demanding test than that - and it worked. They were over the moon. The only issue is that it's far more expensive than ordinary contact adhesive, so they're keeping it for repairs and alterations.

But if you're looking for the toughest flexible glue known to leatherwork, that has to be it. It'll cope with a 150kg man for months if not years (not me, I hasten to add), on a surface the size of a foot. I'll leave you to calculate that for yourself.

It's nice for cross-crafting to work in both directions!

Edited June 29, 2021 by Rahere